To be surprised that foetal gender stereotyping is a thing?

[MrsPickwick]

Or maybe I’m just naive. DH and I are expecting a baby boy in September. When we found out he was a boy, we thought a plus was that we wouldn’t have to be constantly combating all the lazy sexism we that is directed at girls from every angle. With boys, the stereotyping is still very much there of course, but we somehow thought of it as more benign and easier to bat away.

But it’s already starting to grate on us, and our baby hasn’t even seen the outside of my uterus yet. Example: my mother asked about his movements and I commented that he’s more active after I’ve eaten, to which she replied ‘he’s a typical boy – loves his food’. (So I suppose a female foetus would naturally demur from exhibiting biological responses to the stimulus of calories being transferred to her through her umbilical cord ). There have also been comments about how he 'can't wait to get on the football pitch' and so on, though maybe she’d say that about a girl too (though I doubt it). The in-laws are equally guilty of comments like this – boys are like this, girls are like that etc (I keep having to remind myself that they’re talking about foetuses and newborns).

Similarly, a friend of mine who has been having trouble breastfeeding her newborn was told by her health visitor that the reason she’s struggling is because her baby is a boy and therefore ‘lazy’. I’ve heard of cases where reduced foetal movement has been put down to the foetus being a ‘lazy boy’ too.

AIBU to find it irritating? I know the comments on their own are silly and harmless, but there’s a drip-drip effect going on. Already certain expectations of him are shifting into position.

WIBU to just direct my mother and in laws to Delusions of Gender and related material, or would that seem uppity / precious / hectoring? Both DH and I have called out these attitudes before, many times, but it never seems to get through.

Also, please share any examples of similar, it would help to know it’s not just us

I know a lot of people would prefer a trans daughter to a gay son which may account for some of those referrals.

Has anyone seen the comments on this thread on Facebook? Apparently the op is a 'moaning bitch' and has no right to find anything annoying ever because she is lucky enough to be pregnant. .

I feel that this thread has gone off topic a little...

I'm 31 weeks pregnant with a boy. Someone asked me what I was having and when I told them they said "oh I knew you were having a boy because you've got spots" I politely nodded. When in reality I have bad acne scars and I was actually really pleased with how much better my skin has got this pregnancy...

I know a lot of people would prefer a trans daughter to a gay son which may account for some of those referrals
??

I know these things can be annoying and once you start noting these comments the more irritating they become.
My sis had a thing about people asking if he/she was a 'good baby' she'd say their just a baby following their little genes.
Personally I didn't like 'your making a rod for your own back/ the baby will wrap you round his/her fingers' as above their as close to their genes as you can get and I don't think a baby can be crafty.
That said I do agree with ** HelloWadeKinsella that it's family trying to take an interest it might make them more nervous speaking to you if they can feel the annoyance from you (I used to do this with my mum now she's not here to witness me being a mum....)

Well my sons breastfed like hungry monsters and my daughter was the laziest feeder I have ever seen. Having said that they did fit some stereotypes but I suppose on the law of averages they probably would.

My DD is a teacher and she says you can definitely see patterns across a group but obviously individuals will differ.

I remember being very fed up with MIL saying she hoped I would have a pretty little girl, I had 3 boys who I thought were pretty but each to their own. I lost it one day and said, "What if I have a girl and she isn't pretty? What if she shaves her head, has tattoos and wear Doc Martens?" It was quite a unique occasion as my MIL was lost for words.

Just to make it clear I think you can be pretty with a shaved head, tattooes and Doc Martens but it wouldn't have fitted with her image.

granny - by the time dd starts to teach your kids certain behaviour patterns will set in, then it becomes a bit of a negative cycle.

gender stereotyping a-go-go.

So the kid likes "girls" stuff, they put it down to a phase. So they take all his "girl" toys and dressing up stuff away. The child is upset at having the girl stuff taken away, so must be a girl.

I hope to god it's been misrepresented..

I know a lot of people would prefer a trans daughter to a gay son which may account for some of those referrals

Definitely. It is even worse for lesbians. They have so much status to gain by becoming heterosexual "males" instead of lesbian women.

I don't get it, I'd much rather have a gay son than an unhappy one.

I'd rather have a gay son than an unhappy one and certainly more than I'd like one who's being sent down a route of having perfectly normal childhood behaviour pathologised and turned into a permanent patient. But I'm guessing that parents who remove 'female' toys from a male toddler probably aren't the most enlightened when it comes to sexuality.

Oh, and what a bunch of charmers on FB. 'Bitch' 'moron'? 'At least you're pregnant'? I had 5 mcs before having DD and I still would have hated this shit.

I know a lot of people would prefer a trans daughter to a gay son which may account for some of those referrals

I dont even think it goes that far. I think many people would rather have a girl than a boy who doesn't fit gender stereotype.

I think some people just don't know what to say and are not good at making conversation, so they just resort to cliche stereotype comments. They probably don't always truely believe them.

There are differences between boys and girls, but a significant percentage don't fit the stereotypes. Lots of people have said to me that girls are less tactile, more independent and argumentative. Boys more loving, cuddly and laid-back. Both of those stereotypes have fit my children, even though I feel I've treated them exactly the same. However, i know friends whose kids are the opposite.

At the end of the day you're going to be a massive influence in your child's life and you can raise him the way you want. I frequently give my son a doll to play with (whilst ignoring odd looks from on-lookers - usually old people!). I want him to be loving and caring.

I know a lot of people would prefer a trans daughter to a gay son which may account for some of those referrals.

The vast majority of non-gender-conforming children grow up to be perfectly normal gay teens. Encouraging them to 'become' the opposite sex, with the lifetime of medical intervention that entails, is homophobic conversion therapy by the back door.

How anyone can imagine it is a liberal thing to do is beyond me.

Gender stereotyping is one reason why I didn't tell anyone else that ds was a boy whilst I was pregnant.

He is dc3, and I already had 2 dds. I just couldn't face correcting everyone all the time - I had enough facile comments from people who were speculating he might be a boy - 'oh, you'll have your work cut out, a boy won't sit quietly reading or doing craft like dd2 does' (conveniently ignoring dd1, who is ridiculously active, and needs to get out of the house each day; loves cars and ball games; hates sitting still). I'd always answer 'oh, like dd1, you mean?' And people generally laced patronisingly and said oh no, far worse.

And then he arrived, and I was told I'd have to adjust all my parenting viewpoints, and get him some toys that he'd like. Yeah, cos no child ever liked happyland (various scenes), or cars/trains (already had a houseful thanks to umm, not banning the dds from playing with them ), or duplo (boxful a of the stuff).

And we were already out and about each day due to dd1 needing her regular walk/run/climb. And dd2 has never actually walked a step in her life, other than at school where she is the most decorous little thing ever, she's always skipping/hopping/jumping instead.

Honestly, children are children. They are all different, due to their own unique combination of genes and environment. They should all be given the space to like whatever they want, wear whatever they want, and play with whatever they want. Sadly, they often aren't.

The boys are lazy feeders thing I actually understand is very proven. I had a premature son and its proven boys come on slower with feeding and things it was widely spoken about in the nicu.

The rest is a load of crap though and very irritating I beleive newborn should be in white not blue or pink.

Summer, nicu staff can be just as stereotyping. I did a quick search of the literature and found no evidence that there is any difference between the genders and feeding.

It's likely nicu staff have bought into the stereotype, much like the hv and m/w in pp

I see this thread is on the MN facebook page now, and I was getting a lot of comments about how I need to get a grip and just count myself lucky that I'm fertile etc etc. Also that my opinions must be down to pregnancy hormones, which is just hilarious given the subject of this discussion!

I didn't want to put myself by commenting there, but I will say it here. I have many fertility problems and tried for three years for this baby, including going through the horrendous ordeal of failed IVF. I'm over the bloody moon to be pregnant, and that now, foetal gender stereotyping is something I get to talk about. It's a lot better than the conversations I was having back when I thought I'd never be able to have children.

The idea that expressing opinions on gender, sexism, social conditioning and the like is 'overthinking' or moaning is strange. But then I guess, gender stereotypes wouldn't be so very dominant if it wasn't for their army of enforcers

*didnt want to out myself, that should have said

The boys are lazy feeders thing I actually understand is very proven. I had a premature son and its proven boys come on slower with feeding and things it was widely spoken about in the nicu.

I am pretty sure it is more connected to the premature than to the sex of the baby. Know at least one girl who was a premature baby and lazy feeder to the extent that the parents were worried she'd not get enough nourishment. Probably not lazyness but too weak to do much.

I think the idea of a baby being "lazy" is rather ridiculous, anyway.

The thing is it starts of as lazy stereotyping then develops into the type of everyday sexism you've just experienced on facebook. Obviously must be you're hormones love, pregnant women are not capable of critical thought!

Then you end up with a society where 99% of wealth is in the pockets of 100 men. Women just happen to end up with all the carey warey, low paid, no paid jobs, just cos y'know, we like pink and caring so much.

It's exhausting but challenge it.

1000 men but you get the picture

Let's not forget there isn't a huge amount to say to pregnant women about their bump. People just fall back on platitudes

Gosh, people dimissing reduced foetal movements really annoye me!!! How silly to dismiss this due to gender. Any reduced movements see mw immediately, don't wait

Sorry to pick on that one thing. Yanbu. How annoying (it doesn't improve once they're born either!!)

As a midwife I have a go at suggesting people don't find out gender on the grounds that it's definitely a baby and the details can wait. 10 years ago mothers were much more receptive than now.

WIBU to just direct my mother and in laws to Delusions of Gender and related material

Absolutely not, but I say this as someone who gave a copy to all my friends who are mothers when it first came out in paperback.