For seething that we are the only ones ever asked to help elderly parents?

[Roonerspism]

I'm increasingly cross about something but have no idea if I'm being selfish. Go gently, please...

Parents in law live a 2 hour round trip away and both chronically unwell. Constant medical appointments and procedures and investigations. I get on well with my MIL. FIL is a rather unpleasant, controlling man who treats women like cretinous idiots (hence the reason for the following I think)...

We have four young kids and DH's sister has one.

I have just received the following call from MIL "Jonathan (who is FIL) will either come out of hospital on Friday or Saturday so [RoonerDH] should be there 2000 on Friday or Saturday afternoon. We will let you know on Friday morning". Never a request. Or to see if it suits. A simple demand.

This call happens a lot. We might have a few weeks off then it starts again. The hospital is 70 miles from us so the whole pick up for DH takes 4 hours. Sometimes it's two/three times a week. If FIL is in hospital them it's daily visits.

There is free hospital transport provided but FIL refuses it as he says it takes too long. MIL can't drive.

Im utterly worn out by this. Every time, I have to cancel things, beg friends to help take one of my kids to something (because of a clash), we miss family time, cancel arrangements. DH had to miss DD's dance show two weeks ago and we were both shouted at as he was 1/2 hour late. We both work, are exhausted and have no family support as it is.

DH's sister drives too, and has never been asked to assist nor does she offer. She has a willing DH and only one child. She is currently on mat leave.

I'm increasingly seething that she can't take turns on this.

I have no family support nearby. I phoned FIL and said we were struggling for Saturday due to a clash. He said we would have to do Friday night.

DH has forbidden me from either asking his sister or suggesting it as he doesn't like conflict.

I'm fucking fed up of the whole lot of them!

Is this unreasonable? Normal? It might help if I liked FIL but he is a PITA. As I like MIL so much I try to put up but there is no end in sight.

My marriage is already rocky due to us struggling as it is with work/kids and we have absolutely zero time together. In a bad week he is doing this three times whilst SIL goes out for dinner and posts reviews on Facebook.

That sounds good. Stay strong. Yes, it will likely cause ructions, however, if it is your fil, who gets angry, it is not of your concern and if it is your husband, who does so, he will hopefully calm down and see you are doing this for him and your family.

Failing that, the next time the call comes, you could potentially pick up the car keys (for both cars if you have 2) and walk out the house leaving dh with the children. Thus forcing fil to take transport/a taxi. I appreciate this action would be extreme and upset your children in the process.

This sounds like a narcissistic family. Fil narcissist, mil enabler, dh golden child, SIL scapegoat. It is very hard for your dh to extricate himself from this role and if you are not from this family dynamic, it's hard to appreciate the power a narcissist can have over their victims. Your dh will have been trained from birth. There is plenty of information about narcissism online.

I have a lot of experience with ill parents sadly. My DF died recently after a long illness and my DM has dementia.

The most important point when addressing this is that you need to pose solutions not problems. If it's done well, you come across as being positive and reasonable. Anyone not agreeing with your suggestion then becomes the unreasonable one and hopefully then the focal point for people to try to influence.

First, sit down with DH and list out ALL the duties that you are taking on as a family. I recommend including in this trips, help with housework, attendance at medical appointments, shopping, household admin and finances, emotional support etc etc.

Next, you need to clearly and concisely divide these roles between DH and SIL in whatever way you see best. For example, in our case DS and I split the days of the week that we were available to visit or drive (she did M, W, Sa, we did T, F, Su... Stress this is when required, not every week). Thursdays we always said we would ask a neighbour to help). We also split work around household affairs, anything to do with medical appointments, nhs, care, GPs etc was managed by her, utilities, finances etc was managed by myself).

Framing this as a solution meant that we were positively offering to help out. Both of us were clear on our responsibilities and neither of us was responsible for everything. If your SIL doesn't want to accept her part then that is her issue to take up with PIL. Do not take on her roles.

Put it in writing to SIL first and her DP if necessary (from your DH, not you) and give her time to digest it before discussing. This will help everyone to see how much you are offering to help with, not what you are not offering to do. Be prepared for some issues whilst things settle but it can only be an improvement on the current situation. If she disputes it, ask her what she is willing to do, this will likely highlight the huge inequity of it all. When the time is right, write to your PIL as well and be very clear on what you have agreed. If SIL doesn't stick to her part of the agreement then it's very clearly her that is the problem, you are totally justified in pointing PIL in her direction to sort it out.

Specifically, you may also find that this prompts your SIL to persuade PIL to take hospital transport more as well.

To introduce hospital transport, a good way to do it would be to take the transport together for several trips with your fil so he gets used to it?

Finally, have they got Attendance Allowance? It sounds like they would undoubtably qualify for it, even the lower rate is c. £50 a week which would go some way to paying for taxis etc if you need.

PM me if you want to talk more, good luck.

Just to add - a goal of the list should actually be to see what you can "outsource" too, take as much off your plate as you can. Areas where you could get external help / solutions include taxis, hospital transport, cleaner, perhaps a visiting Carer, GP home visits etc.

Beenaround I liked the start if your message, when it was about posing solutions not problems, but i really don't see why the solution should be to notionally share the duties between the two siblings and work out a solution from there. The problem is the FIL refusing to use transport or take a taxi, and the DH playing along with this, to the detriment of the DH's own family. The SIL is very sensibly keeping out of their parent's demands.

The solution is for the DH to put his family first and just stop routinely allowing himself to be summoned to drive his parents around. Let the FIL use the transport, or pay for a taxi and keep his son for emergencies.

This is a DH who complains when his own wife spends time with her relatives. A DH who avoids conflict with all but his wife. There is the solution right there, start by getting DH's priorities sorted out and everything else will flow from there.

All the best, OP, hope you can get it sorted with your DH.

The

I take your point Finally - overall though my suggestion is that this should be an agreement between the two siblings of what they will each do, and implicitly what they will not do.

It's sensible to take this to the PIL as a United approach.

As per my second message, this can very much take the form of - taxis / hospital transport are easily available so that is help that he parents do not need them to provide.

At the very least, taking this approach should force the husband to sit and look logically and on a longer term basis at what needs to be done.

It sounds like logic was replaced by emotions, guilt and an unhealthy degree of controlling influences a long time ago.

It worked for us

I very strongly urge you not to write up a plan of "solutions" to a non-problem and present it to your SIL.

That will make an enemy of her.

It would be reasonable to present that list to your husband and I sister that you will only support him in doing half the unnecessary trips.

The problem you have is with your husband and his preference for his father over his own children..

Ithe might be worth setting out a timetable that explicitly recognises all the ways that his decisions are affecting your family negatively and also that this is a long term situation and needs to be planned for as such.

Figure out with your husband what you can reasonably do NOW and what you might reasonably be able to do in the FUTURE as things inevitably worsen.

Set your own boundaries for both and don't let him browse at you.

Once you know what you can offer long term and as things get worse, then you can approach your SIL and see what her plans (if any) are to help her parents when there is a genuine need.

It is really terrible advice to implicate her in plans drawn up by and for yourself. Calling them solutions will fool nobody. That is a hostile move and will alienate her permanently.

YABU to ask SIL to do more - she has decided what is better for her & her family and that decision is different to your DH's.

You can at least refuse to drive his parents yourself. Even if it's because you just want a rest rather than because you have something else to do.
It is difficult to require your DH to do less for his parents if it was just his own time, but there is a clear clash of obligations when you are both needed to transport DC to different activities at the same time.
Has he been honest enough to admit to you and the DC that their activities have a lower priority than those of his parents ?

He is VBU if he objects to you investing time in your own parents or siblings.
You should find time to do so by saving time on anything you do for him, like laundry, ironing or meals.

Also I do have to add another angle to this.

OP, how unwell is your FIL and what is the prognosis.

Your decisions should really be guided by his overall quality and expectancy of life.

If he has a non terminal illness which does not greatly impair his quality of life (think comparably to stroke, dementia, cancer sufferers) and is expected to live with the condition then your response should be proportionate. It's a marathon not a sprint - commit yourselves accordingly for the long term and you most certainly can say to your DH he's not that unwell.

If however, his life expectancy or quality of life is severely limited by his condition, quite honestly you should all do what you feel you ensure you have no regrets in the future. Everyone's tolerance of guilt and regret is different, on the surface I would say that SILs refusal to partake would suggest things aren't too bad but she may just be someone who is less sensitive (or blinkered) to how you may all feel later if / when the worst happens.

This is also another healthy way to frame things with your DH and ultimately choose how you feel about its effect on your family.

Is it a marathon, or is it a sprint?

Don't you all think though that the main reason the SIL is saying no is that she knows the OP and DH will give in and do it?

Of course DH is the main issue for OP, but SIL absolutely needs to share responsibility. If she doesn't, she should be accountable for that and not the soaps family

OP's not soaps... iPhone predictive text on overdrive today!

Oh dear - I agree that DH needs to be told in no uncertain terms that this situation is unbearable

(A) they can get the transport
(B) his sister (shame on her ) needs to share the load

If he refuses to listen - you have to do some serious thinking as why be with someone that won't listen to the needs of your family ?

You will have to be very assertive and just say it

The SIL has zero responsibility for giving lifts to a man who refuses other transport.

Her brother's decision to waste his time on something so pointless at his kids' expense has nothing to do with her at all.

This is a job nobody needs to be doing.

The OP has also said that this is a woman who has a poor relationship both with her abusive, misogynist father and her enabler mother.

Perhaps she feels no responsibility to either of them.

That is her choice.

I feel either me or DH or our marriage is heading for crack up.

Have you sat down with DH and had a proper, serious calm conversation with him regarding this ?

I know how easy it is to hint and snap at each other about how you feel over and over again over the months and call it communicating, only for when the chips come down to find neither of you to have listened to the other at all.

OP - honestly if the worst was to happen (marriage breakdown over this) would your DH sit here and say:
''yes, i knew i was risking my marriage to rooner but my parents come first'',

or would he say:
''I didn't realise how strongly rooner felt, how it was damaging my marriage, and i didn't know it would come to this''?

It sounds as if the MIL will bear the brunt of FIL's anger if his demands aren't met?
So is that part of the problem?
FIL is holding Roomer and her husband to ransom 'give in to me or widely gets it'?

Wifey not widely!

The transport here is a symptom of the bigger problem, not the cause.

This situation is only going one way. PIL will get older and needs increasingly more support, if the MIL doesn't drive then already you know what some of that support will entail (call it demands, duties, support... Whatever, but that's what is going to be asked of OP and her SILs families).

If you don't clearly establish now that the support (in whatever form that might take... eg right now everyone is talking about driving) needs to be divided into four sources of help, then you will end up doing more and more and more in the future. A little this, a little that, a shopping trip here, fixing the TV there etc... Until you break. You've got to agree what is proportionate and sustainable for each of you. Taking my approach also allows you to continually reassess as things change.

1. What they can do for themselves
2. What you can get external help for
3. What OPs family can / will do
4. What SILs family can / will do

OP genuinely I'm sorry you are going through this. I know only too well how hard it is not only to have to care for and support elderly parents (or in laws) but also the void this can leave in support for yourselves with a young family. It's a double whammy. Look after yourself, it sounds like you are a wonderful person.

If the family is a narcissistic dynamic as I suspect, SIL is the scapegoat. Any criticism or overt demands on her will not be effective as she has rebelled against the oppressive and unhealthy family dynamic. She will then rebel against her fathers unreasonable demands even if they come from op/dh as she will understand this to be fil's manipulating influence. She is actually the one acting most appropriately. I believe any transport needs, which cannot be met by other sensible avenues should be considered as potentially ones to split and only if a taxi is not an option. Are there actually any at the moment?

Surely it is just not feasible to provide support when living so far away.

It is feasible to provide all kinds of support when living far away, even farther away than the OP lives.

But it is neither feasible nor reasonable to be giving the lifts that are now being demanded/acceded to.

If you want your family to help you by running errands does it not behove you to move so that you are nearby?

Next, you need to clearly and concisely divide these roles between DH and SIL in whatever way you see best.

The SIL has already said she wants nothing to do with it. The OP can divide all she likes: the sister isn't doing it. The end.

As a free clue to bullying men: if you treat women like shit, don't expect your daughters to lift a finger later on.

"his sister (shame on her ) needs to share the load"

The load that FIL has created by refusing other transport?

Why should SIL be ashamed?

Simple question here - why does the DH think his parents more important than the OP and the kids??

You say he doesn't like conflict but he's happy to have it with you?

I would simply say that this is the last time and in future you will not be rearranging plans, and either (a) the in-laws move to sheltered accommodation in a sensible location (b) they pay for a taxi (c) they use the hospital transport or (d) the SIL takes her turn, but if she's got a young baby, why should she, baby comes first, surely!

Some good suggestions above about working out what needs to be done to help the parents-in-law and possible solutions.

It irritates me when people claim they "don't like conflict" and use it as an excuse for cowardice.

Nearly everyone dislikes conflict - does he imagine you relish it??
Even soldiers have to be trained and psyched up for it.

Grown ups face up to their responsibilities and don't behave like scared little children cowering behind their mother's skirts.