All PIV = rape??

[Flashbangandgone]

Stumbled across this article...

witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

Seems not only to be strongly arguing that all PIV is necessarily rape, but is incredulous that a feminist could think differently! AIBU to think this is bonkers or has the virtually the whole population of women (who don't think this way) just been brainwashed?!

You did 'lol' though miss

But perhaps you weren't lol - ing at the rape threats.

Not at the rape threats Cold. Just her as a person

'I'm not a man btw'

:(

Beyond is that a reference to my username? If it makes you feel any better, it was actually only the one woodlouse, and it had a pretty quick end...

Thank you woodlouse that's what I was trying to say. I'm slightly sleep deprived at the moment so my words aren't at their best! (and I'm a she)

It is, mum. I have a soft spot for woodlice

bumbly

No, her point was that as someone who doesnt agree with abortion she thought you might prefer a world where PIV was to ttc and that would cut down on abortions

I am honestly not trying to trap you, if you would rather pm me thats fine...or dont bother at all obviously

Would i prefer a world where people only had PIV sex if they wanted a baby? Well it would cut down on abortion and maybe rape as if you were raped (with a penis) then you would have no defence if you were the rapist

Probably sexual violence wouldnt go down though they would just find new ways

Or maybe women and men would live a bit more separately

Dunno

No worries Toxic, I think it was pretty clear what you were trying to say tbh!

Beyond so does my toddler...

Not read comments. This is ridiculous.

There are certainly some groups (religious) which only allow sex where having a baby is a possiblity. It's one reason orthodox jews don't allow sex when menstruating and only then after a ritual bath and the FLDS religion in the US (Christian) is similar or has been at times - only have sex if you're ovulating. Most of that springs from male control of women rather than attempts to protect women although peversely it might have that side effect.

It is important people debate those issues. English law does not redner all penis in vagina sex rape so no it's isn't - rape is just whatever the law decides it is at any time and place. Good topic. Most women however who are straight and are not asexual are happy to have PIV sex.

Fortunately we live in a sane world where consenting PIV sex isn't rape. Men and women will always have sexual urges and both will want a good shag

Lucky i wrote a carefully thought out post about informed consent and pregnancy then, isnt it :)

I just found this petition today:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_activism/2558677-Scrap-the-Rape-Clause-petition

So, apparently there are (were?) plans to force women to prove that their unwanted pregnancies are a result of rape. This is really crazy, dystopian, and I hope it is not real, but it is too early to be an April joke.

I think the time has come to look really closely at who has the main risk with PIV and who is blamed in the aftermath if something happens.

We clearly don't live in a world where women can afford to forget about the disproportionate risk to our health that PIV poses. Many women seem to think we are equal now and they can engage in PIV with about the same risks as men - this is not the case, though, and moreover, governments do not want it to be the case.

Patriarchy does everything in its power to make PIV more risky for women than it need be. I really do not think that downplaying the risks is a good reaction to that.

Nor is pretending that PIV that occurs within relationships is always consensual.

If it was assumed by default that all PIV is rape unless proven otherwise, then this petition would not be necessary. Food for thought.

Rufus, I can read what she wrote.

"Bumbleymummy, I'm surprised you don't feel more supportive towards the anti-PIV viewpoint, given your own views on abortion."

As I said before, thinking about the idea of sex for procreation is in no way the same as being 'anti PIV sex' and thinking all PIV sex is rape. (This would include sex where the aim was to conceive!)

I'm not thinking of this as a 'trap'. I'm pointing out what she actually said.

'If it was assumed by default that all PIV is rape unless proven otherwise, then this petition would not be necessary. Food for thought.'

that is actually a really interesting point id never thought of it that way. It would be great if the emphasis was on getting consent rather than proving that there wasnt any. When you think about that it does tell you alot about societies attitude towards women.

I'm just reading a book (Shattered Dreams) by a lady born into polygamy in the USA who moved to Mexico to marry again within the religion. She and her husband are quite young and she wants sex a lot. He all his life believed that they should only have it when she was ovulating and it should only be to conceive. So even though he equally gives each of the 3 wives their 2 nights in succession if his wife is pregnant, breast feeding or not ovulating he refuses sex with her. She got more and more fed up and said she would leave. He said if she could find a reference to sex other than for procreation in scripture of their church he'd do it; so she did some research and found him the bit and (where I've reached in the book so far) now he's giving her PIV sex on her nights and she's happier (a bit happier, certainly not very happy as it's a pretty nasty set up and she escaped eventually).

I don't think for practical purposes the law could be changed in the UK so that all PIV sex is rape unless you can prove otherwise. People would have to put their phones on record and have signed statements before each sex act otherwise it would not be safe for men to engage in it. However it is important to discuss the issues and I agree that women are taken advantage of my men all over this planet. Plenty even on MN will just tolerate sex they aren't particularly up for that night to keep their husband happy. Not a great way to be but still pretty common.

"It's feminists like the one on that blog that ruin feminism for everyone else"

Actually I think it's people who are so willing to see feminism discredited that they promote extreme viewpoints as mainstream feminism that ruin it for everyone else.

I'm not saying that of you Toxic but poor AF, and all feminists, have to fight against wilful misinterpretations all the time and it gets a bit tiring to say the least.

I've never met anyone in real life who believes this. Internet weirdos don't count.

Well put, They.

It's an interesting point to ponder, isn't it, user? How would sexual relations have progressed if women's pleasure were the key focus not "conjugal rights"? if oral and manual were the "norm" and PIV was retained for TTC?

There are sometimes threads on here about how a woman can't get on with hormonal contraception and a man can't be trusted with condoms and won't have a vasectomy. A solution rarely taken seriously is to skip PIV and have sex in other ways.

I wish people would make their minds up about what puts women off feminism. Is it extreme views, like all PIV sex is rape, or is it trivial views like wanting to change the words in nursery rhymes?

AHell, on abortion threads anyone suggesting that 'if you don't want to get pregnant then don't have PIV sex' is met with very negative responses.

House, you think it's a good idea for all men to be criminals by default unless proven otherwise? Terrible idea. 'Guilty until proven innocent'.

Bert, why does it have to be one or the other? Maybe it's just anything they consider to be ridiculous and can't bring themselves to agree with?