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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - vegan dinner party guest EATING FISH

709 replies

isitginoclock · 13/05/2016 20:06

We're throwing a dinner party. I've just excused myself to the loo to write this because I'm FUMING!! One of our guests has recently become a vegan. I spent bloody ages making her a mushroom pate for starter which she happily tucked into whilst we ate our salmon tartare. She then asked if she could try some salmon.

Wtf?!?!

I've bought loads of different stuff for her to eat and spent all frigging day cooking it. Why do I bother?!

OP posts:
ThumbWitchesAbroad · 14/05/2016 09:57

GeezA - love your random list of things you've been assumed to be!! Grin What on earth DOES a satanist look like, in mufti? I mean, I get the whole Black Mass get up, but I assume you don't wander around dressed like that? Wink

bibbitybobbityyhat · 14/05/2016 09:58

I'm not cross about veganism at all. Some of my best friends ... yada yada.

I do find it a little irritating when people make things up to suit their own agenda.

HowBadIsThisPlease · 14/05/2016 09:59

Well the host did invite someone to dinner. To then moan about them eating the food that was on the table is really inhospitable, whatever she may actually think. You would never do that about anything else - if someone came over to your house and ate half a box of chocolates, which you offered, while you hoped they would only eat one, you would never bitch about them publicly afterwards, however much you mourned your chocolates.

What I am saying is that this precise issue - vegetarianism or veganism - arouses really judgemental passions in people who have made no attempt to walk that path themselves. And I think that is unfair. I have a whole host of speculative hypotheses about why this may be, that I can't be bothered to type out, but vaguely to do with some form of resentment of purported superiority, or some such bullshit. It's to do with women and diet and it's right at the vortex of a load of fucked up shit that every woman should look at and actively disentangle herself from.

When I spot the vegan rolling under the table with the leg of lamb bathed in gravy, I just shrug and chuck them the mint sauce. It's their body. And I put the food out to be eaten by guests, not to be policed.

glassgarden · 14/05/2016 10:04

Veganism has just one very clear necessary and sufficient condition
Non consumption of animal products
If you don't meet that one criteria they you don't qualify as vegan

Its not a hard to define category like art or sport where criteria are various

glassgarden · 14/05/2016 10:12

Howbad
So vegans have some air of moral superiority and you don't think it's fair that people who don't want to actually give up animal products can't share some of that vegan kudos

We should all be able to have our cake and eat it, shun flesh and eat flesh
Make things up to suit ourselves as we go along

SoupDragon · 14/05/2016 10:14

I would like to know how many of the people who seem to be a bit cross about my use of "vegan" self define as vegan. Because unless you are one, or call yourself one - why are you cross about it?

If I've gone to a lot of trouble to provide vegan food for someone that then decides that actually, they will eat fish, I think it would be OK for me to be somewhat pissed off. Also, the fake vegans/vegetarians just make it hard for those who actually stick to their beliefs, on account of them being actual proper beliefs or dietary requirements.

If you're one of the "fuzzy vegans" then surely you say "I try to eat vegan but I'm OK with a bit of X Y or Z".

JinRamen · 14/05/2016 10:22

There is an argument that goes along th Eli e soft you can't actually be a vegan because plants require nutrition from the soil. Said nutrients come from...dead animals.

Just putting that out there! Grin

CantSleepClownsWillEatMe · 14/05/2016 10:24

HowBad I think people get irritated by this because the terms vegetarian, pescetarian, vegan do actually have definitions. If you are one of those then it is annoying to go to an event, dinner party or whatever where the organiser/host has mistakenly assumed that eg the vegetarians will eat fish because they know some so called vegetarians who do!

As has been outlined on this thread a good host will make an effort to provide a meal that suits their guests dietary requirements. If they've misunderstood what that is its awkward for them and their guest. If they've understood exactly what that is and put time, money and effort into providing a suitable meal then it's annoying and inconsiderate of the guest to reveal that actually all that work wasn't required because guest will actually eat what everyone else is having.

SuburbanRhonda · 14/05/2016 10:25

I'm always staggered by how many MNers personally know people who claim to be vegetarian or vegan but then eat meat or fish.

I mean, the numbers of them on this thread alone - just amazing.

MadameCholetsDirtySecret · 14/05/2016 10:26

Your guest is an attention seeker. It makes me fucking furious. I am a vegan but don't make a fuss. I'm happy with a plate of vegetables or salad as I don't have a big appetite.

Loving the I'm a vegan memes.

HowBadIsThisPlease · 14/05/2016 10:29
  • I think it is mean spirited to be annoyed about going to some trouble to cook for guests. If you don't want to, get a take away, or don't ask them over. This is not what hospitality is. If you want to invite people over and then get pissed off because they aren't grateful enough (i.e. eat not just the special vegan thing but other stuff too) then you are too judgey to be a good host.
  • I actually disagree about my approach leading to fuzzy labelling of food. I am very strict about whether a dish is pesce, vegan, or veggie. I think this has no bearing on who then decides to eat it. And vice versa.
  • Vegans are people who are making some effort to not eat certain things. This is a real hot button thing for some women, the sort of women who say "ooh that looks healthy" in a weird bitter way every time someone eats a salad (even if it is me and I am 3 stone overweight - I eat so many fruit and vegetables at work and some women are so fucking weird about it - I am fat anyway because I eat too much of everything). They are the sort of women who say "She looks great! She's lost about a stone and that dress really shows her figure off. BITCH. ha ha ha ha ha ha!" This is the same judgey attitude that jumps on "WHY DO YOU EAT THIS AND NOT THAT? HOW CAN YOU EAT THAT? YOU CAN'T EAT THAT." All women need to get the hell over what other women eat. This seems like some vestigial last refuge for 80s diet policing. Like it's the only time you can come out and say "you can't eat that!" or "how dare you set yourself up as better than me because of not eating things! all the imagined superiority I attached to you for not eating is sham!" not eating things is a big deal. Other people not eating things makes women, who are always trying to stop themselves eating things, feel terrible. IT's complicated. It's a vortex. Stop it.
  • I hope I never get invited to dinner by a "friend" who posts about me on the internet during the meal and then bitches about me with everyone else when I have gone.
originalmavis · 14/05/2016 10:30

Proper veggies and vegans generally aren't the ones who make a fuss. They are just grateful for something they can eat! I still get rediculously excited if I eat out and there's more than one choice on the menu.

People who make the fuss then eat the fish are just attention seekers

RaeSkywalker · 14/05/2016 10:30

If I was a 'fake' or 'lapsed' vegan, if I turned up at a friend's dinner party having said I was vegan, but fancied the fish option, I would eat the vegan food because it's rude not to when you have made a request.

I do also find it strange when people say "well I really wouldn't go out of my way to accommodate a veggie" like it's hard. I'm vegetarian, DH isn't. He gets endless questions about how 'difficult' it must be. A lot of people assume we must never eat together. Actually, it's really simple- for example, chicken pasta: cook pasta with all veggie elements, pan fry chicken seperately. Dish mine up, chuck his chicken into the pot, mix, serve his portion. It's really not hard.

SuburbanRhonda · 14/05/2016 10:31

As has been outlined on this thread a good host will make an effort to provide a meal that suits their guests dietary requirements.

But someone who waits until a guest has left the dinner party, then reads out nasty comments from an internet forum to the remaining guests so they can all have a good laugh behind her back is by no definition a good host.

CantSleepClownsWillEatMe · 14/05/2016 10:32

Suburban I'm not very surprised about that at all given some people seem to believe they can "self define" as whatever and the meaning then adapts to what they want it to be!

The "fuzziness" of these terms seems to be a fairly recent thing, probably tied in with efforts at healthy eating and so on so you get people saying they are say veggie because "well, I'm practically vegetarian I only eat sausages and bacon at the weekend"

RaeSkywalker · 14/05/2016 10:32

And yes, my general policy when eating out is that I will eat anything as long as it has no meat, fish, or by-products. Sometimes that means eating things I wouldn't normally like, but I get on with it. I'm happy that there is something to eat.

glassgarden · 14/05/2016 10:33

Howbad your rant is totally besides the point

BarbarianMum · 14/05/2016 10:33

This. It's just 1 meal. Eat fish on your own time. (And the same to all those who are GF unless they really fancy some baguette/cake for a change-it's not a game for some of us).

glassgarden · 14/05/2016 10:35

Vegans are people who are making some effort to not eat certain things nope wrong again
You seem to have a very poor aptitude for logic

HowBadIsThisPlease · 14/05/2016 10:36

"the terms vegetarian, pescetarian, vegan do actually have definitions."

I know - so if you are making food for other people, then you have to think about what you put in it and how you describe it.

You can't just decide that a dish with prawns in it is vegetarian because you know a "vegetarian" who eats fish. My argument is that if we all just accept that people will call themselves what the hell they like, while doing what the hell they like, we are then safer in describing and defining the food that is on offer. IT is this rigid belief that people are honest and consistent that is dangerous, that is where you get fallacies like "but prawns must be ok for veggies because my friend Sandra is veggie and always orders a prawn cocktail".

Actually people don't really think that vegetarian food can include fish do they? I know people will say they are veggie and eat it, but no one arranging an event would actually say "what about some salmon as the veggie option?" would they?

SuburbanRhonda · 14/05/2016 10:38

So what do people think about the host and her guests bitching about the "vegan" guest behind her back?

Ok, because she lied about her dietary choices? Or in poor taste?

HowBadIsThisPlease · 14/05/2016 10:39

"This. It's just 1 meal. Eat fish on your own time. "

but the vegan, or "vegan", won't buy fish and have it killed for her. She is suddenly struck by it when it's sitting on the table, because her usual life where she caters for herself, doesn't bring her into close contact with it. Perhaps she thinks that "I didn't cause anyone to kill this fish, it was killed anyway for this party" makes it better. Mainly she is just very, deeply, hungry.

HowBadIsThisPlease · 14/05/2016 10:39

glassgarden, my logic is impeccable, you are just disagreeing with my premises.

limitedperiodonly · 14/05/2016 10:40

I'm always staggered by how many MNers personally know people who claim to be vegetarian or vegan but then eat meat or fish. I mean, the numbers of them on this thread alone - just amazing.

I've never met one either Suburban. Neither have I met a vegetarian or a vegan who has talked about their reasons unless asked. I must be lucky.

someone who waits until a guest has left the dinner party, then reads out nasty comments from an internet forum to the remaining guests so they can all have a good laugh behind her back is by no definition a good host.

I also agree with you here ^^

SuburbanRhonda · 14/05/2016 10:40

cantsleep

I was being sarcastic Smile. I don't believe some of the stories on here.