AIBU - vegan dinner party guest EATING FISH

[isitginoclock]

We're throwing a dinner party. I've just excused myself to the loo to write this because I'm FUMING!! One of our guests has recently become a vegan. I spent bloody ages making her a mushroom pate for starter which she happily tucked into whilst we ate our salmon tartare. She then asked if she could try some salmon.

Wtf?!?!

I've bought loads of different stuff for her to eat and spent all frigging day cooking it. Why do I bother?!

YANBU

snowgirl29 ThumbWitchesAbroad I've never really thought about it before but, although I was probably veggie for a while after Bacongate, I think when I consciously gave up full on vegetarianism it was probably also around eating bacon.
It was still a number of years before I could actively enjoy eating red meat (especially red meat that looked like red meat) and the smell of the meat aisle in the supermarket made me queasy.
I've been eating meat again for 20+ years, don't label myself as any -tarian, and enjoy eating & cooking food; sometimes that food has a meat component, sometimes it doesn't. If the veggie option sounds tasty, I'll order it. This thread has made me realize that acquaintances that I eat with on a semi regular basis may be a bit if they see my vegetarian choice one time and meat the next; and assume I am a veggie-when-it-suits-me, rather than me actually just choosing what I fancy. not that I think my menu choices are remotely of any interest to anyone else

"being a vegan who sometimes eats fish/eggs etc is like being a married bachelor or a god-fearing atheist - not possible."

I don't agree with this. I can see where it comes from - you're assuming a definition of vegan as "person who consumes no animal products at all".

I don't use that definition. It might be the one in the dictionary, but actually it is so close to impossible, that I think there are hardly any vegans at all in that sense. In my experience, veganism is an aspiration, a frame of mind, a world view rather than a practical lifestyle. I would define vegan as "someone who idealistically likes to pretend that it is possible not to consume animal products, and will only occasionally do so when under severe nutritional or social pressure"

the outcome is that this kind of vegan probably does consume a lot less animal stuff than someone who doesn't even attempt anything like this. so it's not really fair to slag that person off as if everyone attempted something, the planet would be in better shape.

Geeza - I had to laugh at your post, not because it was particularly humorous, but it reminded me that numerous of my friends believe that I am a vegetarian. I have no idea why, as I never have been, and have never eschewed meat in any way - but even people I've only just met assume I'm a vegetarian!! I had to ask one once, why they thought this, and they said "oh you just look like one"
Apparently being a bit skinny, having frizzy hair and being quite pale == being vegetarian

AS it happens, SINCE then I have had to modify my diet to exclude some things that definitely disagree with me - but I'm still not vegetarian! Not even close.

What on earth is your view of a vegan then how bad?

You can't chanfe a belief system and movement to suit you, you either are vegan or are not.

I think that's what you call a fish and chipocrite!

Or, horror of horrors, you could just serve food suitable for vegetarians to everyone,
Why? If most people do enjoy meat and would look forward to it.

My guess is the vegetarian friends would slowly be put aside so that the others could enjoy their meat and fish and cream in peace.

What I'd do, most likely, is to cook options that I could just not include meat in one or was cooked separately. And most entres and desserts could have mostly fruit and veg, which we always do as it's healthier than sweet options or high fat. Or something like stuffed mushrooms and leave out ant meat out of a few.

I would certainly not be cooking entirely separate foods.

...any meat...
I always try to leave out ant meat anyway.

My mom turned vegetarian in the very early 80s when it was a lot more unusual. But if we ate out and there was nothing that suited her on the menu, she would order a roast dinner, then she would just pass the meat to my dad. He thought this was great obvs!
She didn't eat meat because she didn't like the taste of it, but she would eat a couple of bits of bacon on Christmas day if they were nice and crispy...

Funnily enough, she's not a vege anymore and the meal that 'broke' her so to speak was... KFC! She found she'd been craving something for a while, then my dad came home with a bucket'o'chicken as a treat for him and my brother - well she devoured that meal like Starvin' Marvin and never looked back, and now I think she looks a bit healthier for it. We do wonder if it was linked to her going through the menopause, and she's still not a huge fan of meat but she will eat good quality stuff once or twice a week.

Dad still has to sneak out for his Dirty KFC fix

you're assuming a definition of vegan as "person who consumes no animal products at all".

Mostly because that's what a vegan is.

I would define vegan as "someone who idealistically likes to pretend that it is possible not to consume animal products, and will only occasionally do so when under severe nutritional or social pressure"

I don't think eating fish at a dinner party because "well, a little bit doesn't hurt does it" fits that at all. It's not like consuming something that has some dairy in, it's an actual dead animal.

From the vegan society website

A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

So, whilst it perhaps allows for slip ups etc with the phrase "as far as possible and practicable" it certainly doesn't allow for scoffing a dead animal when you feel like it. The last sentence certainly implies that from a diet point of view it means absolutely no animal products whatsoever.

Loving HowBadIsThis's definition of veganism . Actually made me laugh.

"You just look like one*..."
I've had this too ThumbWitches!
not skinny, or pale. Hair can sometimes have a tendency to frizz

*insert (Veggie/ Satanist/ Tree Hugger/ Lesbian Bitch Queen/ any other random label you wish) here^ not sure WTF a LBQ looks like, but hey-ho, good to know I looked like one!?

I don't agree with this. I can see where it comes from - you're assuming a definition of vegan as "person who consumes no animal products at all i don't use that definition. It might be the one in the dictionary

Wtf ??
You don't agree with it??
Do you just make up your own meanings for all words
That must make life very confusing

You are wrong

We don't know how the person felt before she ate the fish. Saying casually "a little bit doesn't hurt" might be cover for "OH MY GOD I NEED THAT FOOD" which is what is happening in her head and body.

I am not vegan (in any sense of the word!) but I have in the past tried to restrict my diet on ethical grounds and it was physically really difficult for me. And I ate things I really didn't mean to quite often (and felt terrible about it). I think a lot or most vegans live like that all the time.

You might argue that there should be a different word like "vegan-aspirant" but I would argue that in the absence of such a word, we may as well just use "vegan" as that is realistically what most of them are - people who try not to eat animal products

"Do you just make up your own meanings for all words"

Not on my own, no. but we as a group use words in ways which realistically change and mean different things in practice from what we think they mean in theory. I am just highlighting explicitly what "vegan" usually means in practice.

No, vegans do not eat any animal products that is what defines them as vegan.

I would like to know how many of the people who seem to be a bit cross about my use of "vegan" self define as vegan. Because unless you are one, or call yourself one - why are you cross about it? I think part of my "beef" (ha ha) with this is that people who eat everything in sight and do very well on it thank you very much, set themselves up to police everyone else who has made some (however incomplete) gesture to give a shit about someone other than themselves when they eat

I think a kind and inconclusive fuzzy-edged definition of "vegan" is a nicer approach than sitting in front of a T bone steak and waving a bloody knife at someone who tries to dip their chicory leaf in the cheese dip "no no no no, off off off, you can't have that, you're VEGAN"

How did you make vegan mushroom pate? I love a veggie recipe but it's full of cream yum yum so not too healthy.

I have fakeatarians. They are the ones who make a fuss in restaurants, torture the waiting staff over every minute ingredient of every single item on the menu then order the lamb.

I'm vegetarian (30 years now) and had lunch recently with someone I've known for 20 years and mentioned that I was going for the veggie burger. She didn't know I was veggie.

I think many people have taken on a message that meat is bad for your health (I'm not trying to make an argument that it is or isn't) and that a typical vegetarian diet is an especially healthy way to eat, something to which they aspire
In these circumstances calling yourself a vegetarian is just a way to try and score points in the health top trumps game

Hate fakeatarians. Damn pacifict autocorrect.

Vegan is not a fuzzy term
Its on or off
The boundaries are not fluid
I think you're conflating it with other currently shifting cultural concepts, ie gender and sexuality

Fuzzy veganism is fine as long as the said fuzzball doesn't mind their non-vegan host being a bit fuzzy too.

apologies legend didnt mean to direct the comment at you just that i was shocked by your neighbours

My proper vegetarian friend described her view of eating meat would be like me eating dog poo. Visceral disgust you would never "try a little bit"