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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - vegan dinner party guest EATING FISH

709 replies

isitginoclock · 13/05/2016 20:06

We're throwing a dinner party. I've just excused myself to the loo to write this because I'm FUMING!! One of our guests has recently become a vegan. I spent bloody ages making her a mushroom pate for starter which she happily tucked into whilst we ate our salmon tartare. She then asked if she could try some salmon.

Wtf?!?!

I've bought loads of different stuff for her to eat and spent all frigging day cooking it. Why do I bother?!

OP posts:
Londonmamabychance · 16/05/2016 12:40

Baboshka, the thing is, you accommodate all wishes and desires and expect the guests to do the same. You don't expect guests to be selfish or create problems for others. The guest asking to try the fish did not cause hassle for anyone, or take food from anyone else with that action. Meat-eating guests eating the vegetarian options and leaving nothing for the vegetarians does create a real problem, so it's not the same thing at all.

for both Babooshka and Penguin, the reason many people find the guest behaviour annoying is that they think it reveals she COULD eat the non-veggie options. So the "hassle" the OP went through to cook the vegan meal was wasted. But in fact you don't know if she could have eaten a whole non vegan meal, all she asked for was to try one bite. So you (and the OP) are judging without knowing the full story. It is not for you to say if cooking the vegan meal was unnecessary because the guest showed herself able to eat ONE bite of fish.

Further, I refer back to the point that if you did not think it was annoying in the first place to have to cook a vegan meal, discovering that the guest could eat non-vegan food would not upset you so much.

Ricardian · 16/05/2016 12:43

Baboshka, the thing is, you accommodate all wishes and desires

Do you seriously expect hosts in their own houses to do this? "all wishes and desires"? Seriously?

AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou · 16/05/2016 12:43

I think you're wilfully missing the point. Asking for a vegan meal and then eating the fish is like laughing in your hosts face: more fool you, it says, I don't really need special food, I was just dicking you around!

No new vegan is able to eat a bite of fish but unable to eat a plateful. You're just making excuses for epic rudeness.

Londonmamabychance · 16/05/2016 12:43

I think it's all about being a bit more flexible and accommodating to other people. Personally, if I was vegan or vegetarian, and I'd asked for a special meal, I would eat that meal and I would not ask to try the other dishes, out of respect for the host, and to show her that her efforts were appreciated. I do agree that is the most polite and correct attitude. However, if I did happen to have a guest who did what the guest in question did, I would not get upset about it or find it rude.

AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou · 16/05/2016 12:45

I think it's all about being a bit more flexible and accommodating to other people

OP was flexible and accomodating, and you have been nothing but rude to her. A bit like the fake vegan was.

Londonmamabychance · 16/05/2016 12:47

well yes, within reason! of course you expect your guest to be normal people who don't ask if they can take their shoes of and empty a jar of Nutella on your white carpet and dance around in it. Or some such thing. Asking for a special meal and having it and then showing you could eat something else doesn't really constitute epic rudeness to me. Only someone who didn't really want to do the special favour in the first place would see it as such

Buttwing · 16/05/2016 12:47

This happened to me a couple of years ago at Christmas, fil told me that bil had changed from being a vegetarian to being vegan. He was coming to us for Xmas day so I spent ages preparing a vegan three course dinner for him. He ate it and said it was delicious then aunty mary piped up with " oh yes our billy couldn't cope with being vegan he missed chocolate too much so he's gone back to being veggie"
I could have quite cheerfully strangled him!

Londonmamabychance · 16/05/2016 12:48

I think we just have to agree to disagree on this : ) but trust me, life is a lot easier and more pleasant if you don't go around and get upset over such trifles as a vegan guest eating a bite of fish.

Ricardian · 16/05/2016 12:49

Asking for a special meal and having it and then showing you could eat something else doesn't really constitute epic rudeness to me.

It does to me. It says "will you waste your time doing something special for me me me me me me me? I don't actually need you to, but I couldn't be seen to be eating the food other people eat because I AM SPECIAL".

limitedperiodonly · 16/05/2016 12:54

Good hosts supply wine penguin.

Since when do guests specify preferences? Being invited to eat at someone's house is not the same as eating in a restaurant, you don't get to choose your meal, you just get to say what you can't eat for health or ethical reasons (and as for the latter it is polite to go easy - not demand organic, free-range GM-free produce cause that's what you buy for yourself).

What joyous occasions your dinner parties sound BarbarianMum. I don't like beetroot but have no medical or religious excuses for that. Would you force me to eat it and bitch about me when I'd gone?

I've always been asked if there's something I dislike at every dinner party I've ever been to. That's normal. I don't have a huge list. Beetroot and oysters. That's about it.

LyndaNotLinda · 16/05/2016 13:09

If you are vegan, by definition, you do not eat fish. If you eat fish, you are not vegan so don't ask your host to prepare you a special meal. The End.

Baboooshka · 16/05/2016 13:11

So what do you do if one of your guests says they prefer white wine to red Baboooska. Do you think: 'Sod it! I'm serving beef so you'll drink the red wine' or do you get in a bottle of white?

That's a really random analogy, Limited.

'What would you like to drink?' is a pretty standard question to ask when people are sat having dinner at your house. Having a variety of drinks on-hand isn't difficult. No elaborate preparation, and if a bottle stays unopened, it keeps. Like Penguin said, guests bring some, too.

But yes, if a guest contacted me, beforehand, without being asked, to say 'I prefer white to red, Babooshka', I'd think that was weird. For a start, between guests' and host's bottles, there's usually a variety of wine there, so you must really feel strongly about white if you're getting in touch to make sure there's some on offer. I rarely drink red wine, since it triggers migraines, but I've never asked a host to cater for this. They offer red or white? I'll have white, thanks. Red or soft drink? Soft drink would be lovely. Not: 'could you not pop over to Sainsbury's, and pick me up a Pinot Grigio' or 'what about that bottle of Prosecco I saw in your fridge can we crack that open?'.

'What would you like me to cook for you?' isn't standard, unless it's a really small group. Preparing separate dishes to suit 6+ people's preferences takes a lot of time and effort. Most people understand this, which is why they inform the host of allergies/restrictions and don't start expressing preferences (unless pressed), since this isn't a restaurant. The fact that you're in someone's home, not in a commercial establishment where you can order each course and drink subject to your own preference, seems to be lost on some people.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 16/05/2016 13:12

Ah I see, Yellow - thank you for enlightening me! Grin

I think whoever it was who thought that the OP resented and didn't even like the faux-vegan guest has got a very weird view Hmm

If I resented and didn't really like someone, I'd be fucked if I'd spend hours of my life creating a special vegan dish just for them , so that they could eat good food at my dinner party - if I resented and didn't really like them but felt pressured to invite them, I'd have given them a salad! I'd only spend time making something lovely for an actual friend, one whom I liked, and wanted to make them feel welcomed and understood.

If they then, however, decided that they could just as easily have eaten the started that I prepared for the other guests, I'd be more than just a little put out.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 16/05/2016 13:13

starteR, obviously.

Baboooshka · 16/05/2016 13:34

Baboshka, the thing is, you accommodate all wishes and desires and expect the guests to do the same. You don't expect guests to be selfish or create problems for others. The guest asking to try the fish did not cause hassle for anyone, or take food from anyone else with that action.

No hassle to anyone -- except the hostess, who'd prepared vegan courses for someone who could not eat meat, fish or animal products. But apparently that doesn't count, as long as the guests' wishes and desires are fulfilled (within certain parameters you've kindly laid out).

Some of the responses on this thread make me cringe, because for most of my five years' vegetarianism I was also a teenager, with limited experience of cooking for other people, and so fairly blase about anyone's effort on my behalf.

I mean, come on! It's not a big deal! All you need to do is maybe prepare one or two extra little things just throw together a chickpea lentil artichoke stew and find me a non-gelatine dessert. Is that really so hard? I know you're cooking Christmas dinner for 25, Gran, but there's no need to make a fuss. You do it every year! Why don't you broaden your horizons and do a chickpea lentil artichoke stew for all of us? No? Okay you're one of those We Must Eat Meat Every Meal people. Gawd. Look, I'm just going to try this bit of bacon, then I'll leave you to it, because I can see you're in a bad mood.

BananaThePoet · 16/05/2016 13:46

the thing is, you accommodate all wishes and desires
Now there is a person I want to know - especially if they are super rich. I would wish for them to give me all their money and desire they move out and give me their house Wink
But maybe this is all down to a miscommunication. Is your friend American?
Maybe when they said they were a Vegan they meant they were from Las Vegas?
Wink Grin

AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou · 16/05/2016 14:08

I mean, come on! It's not a big deal! All you need to do is maybe prepare one or two extra little things -- just throw together a chickpea lentil artichoke stew and find me a non-gelatine dessert. Is that really so hard?

Haven't you RTFT at all? Nobody minds making you a lentil stew and a dessert....until you then eat the smoked salmon you said that you couldn't have!

Why are people so confused by this?

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 16/05/2016 14:11

Penguin - she was taking the piss...

AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou · 16/05/2016 14:16

Was she? I'm so confused by the really quite mad people on here that I can no longer tell.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 16/05/2016 14:27

Oh yes, totally. Honestly, have another read in a sarcastic tone - as though you're a petulant teenager.Grin

Totally understand why you're having trouble telling though - I didn't "get it" from the first line either.

AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou · 16/05/2016 14:31

It reads much better that way.

Can I read the ones telling us we should cater to every whim and desire of anyone who crosses the threshold is that way too? Because they would make a lot more sense then as well!

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 16/05/2016 14:42

Grin Give it a try!

Baboooshka · 16/05/2016 15:08

Can I read the ones telling us we should cater to every whim and desire of anyone who crosses the threshold is that way too? Because they would make a lot more sense then as well!

Sorry, penguin. I did think it was obviously a pisstake from the preceding paragraph, but perhaps I channelled my obnoxious veggie teenager too thoroughly... Definitely imagine it said by someone with Kevin-the-teenager hair and a Greenpeace t-shirt.

I totally support the idea that some of the other posts are satirical! Especially the ones about not 'policing boundaries' about your guest's faux-veganism, and the bit where we learned it is important to point out for philosophical reasons, that not all definitions work on this very newtonian "if x, not y" basis and, therefore, we are not being 'nuanced' enough if we fail to understand that one can both be vegan and eat fish.

Wine
momb · 16/05/2016 15:13

I think the term vegan can be nuanced. I've learnt a lot from this thread. As a host I always try to cater for my guest's special food requirements. If it is impolite to police food preferences, I have always always offered food which I believe fulfilled the brief: thus I would change every dish in a planned menu if necessary to accommodate a vegan,
...but if veganism is indeed nuanced, does that mean it's Ok for me to make a soup with chicken stock knowing it will taste better than veggie stock...because a little won't hurt?

Krooski · 16/05/2016 15:31

momb
if veganism is indeed nuanced, does that mean it's Ok for me to make a soup with chicken stock knowing it will taste better than veggie stock...because a little won't hurt

I think you know the answer to that. No, it's not okay to do that if you promised your vegan guest you'd make them vegan food. That would just amount to bullying.
If you don't want to make them vegan food, you tell them that. That way they can choose not to come, or to bring their own food, or to pre-eat or whatever.

And if the term vegan can be 'nuanced' it's not up to you to decide which nuances a particular individual should have.