AIBU - vegan dinner party guest EATING FISH

[isitginoclock]

We're throwing a dinner party. I've just excused myself to the loo to write this because I'm FUMING!! One of our guests has recently become a vegan. I spent bloody ages making her a mushroom pate for starter which she happily tucked into whilst we ate our salmon tartare. She then asked if she could try some salmon.

Wtf?!?!

I've bought loads of different stuff for her to eat and spent all frigging day cooking it. Why do I bother?!

My OH's ex is vegetarian, though she doesn't like fresh vegetables (with the exception of raw onions which, like with cooking apples, she will eat raw like normal apples). Her mum once had to phone ahead to a posh gastro-pub they we eating at to request a cheese sandwich for her as she didn't like anything else in the menu, and another time eating out, she had a small pasta starter as her main because "it was the only veggie thing in the menu" despite there being a whole page of veggie options, which was pointed out to her, but she didn't listen until after the meal when she was complaining about the lack of food and it was pointed out again. She sulked.

Sorry it's not necessarily entirely relevant, but I can't stand the woman and am happy to share any of her less-best moments inwards evil grin

MrsMimmy she sound like a very picky eater maybe she uses vegetarian to cover how picky she really is.

Pork gelatine also frequently makes an appearance in individual mousse pots. And some low-fat yogurts.

suburbanrhonda that's perfectly normal. It's just that you don't like it. Some meat eaters don't either. I love jam roly poly made with suet. My friend didn't know it was beef or pork fat and looked sick when I told her. She was saying there was something about sweet suet puddings that she didn't like. She must have detected the taste of animal fat and didn't know what it was but didn't like it.

As long as you check and people don't sneak it in without telling you, I can't see the problem.

Vegans dont eat or use any product which is or comes from an animal. So no meat (obviously) but also no honey, butter, milk, leather etc.

I'm vegetarian (and have been for longer than I ever ate eat) so don't eat meat or wear leather or sheepskin etc. I do eat dairy, honey and so on - so long as the animal hasn't 'suffered' then it's ok with me. And yes, this doe encompass things like batter hens etc so free range all the time and organic wherever possible.

I think some people just dislike vegetarians and like to point out slips or lapses to make themselves feel superior. It's very easy to make mistakes and accidentally eat animal products - muller yoghurt have gelatine in for example as do the cadbury chocolate pot things - I ate quite a few of the chocolate pots at uni before I thought about checking the ingredients list as didn't think for a second chocolate wouldn't be veggie. Easy done.

So vegans don't use computers or mobile phones or TVs?

So vegans don't use computers or mobile phones or TVs?

What components of these are made of animals or their byproducts?

I do eat dairy, honey and so on - so long as the animal hasn't 'suffered' then it's ok with me

A lot of animals suffer in the dairy industry. I've never understood the choice to eschew meat but not milk if you reasoning is animal cruelty. It's not my business so I've never asked anyone outright, but I don't get it.

Computers and phones contain stearic acid, derived from animal carcasses. LCD screens contain cholesterol from animal sources.

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100928161603AAOh9gr

Lots of stearic acid is sourced from non-animal sources. Do you have a source that proves that all computers and phones use animal-sourced stearic acid? I would imagine that non-animal sources would be cheaper and therefore widespread.

Legendofthephoenix and many other posters: re picky eating
I agree with all of you who say that you're perfectly happy to cook appropriate dishes for veggies and vegans but are simply irritated when people are using these labels to cover for the fact that they are just picky. Why not tell me that you don't like red meat, that you prefer fish, or whatever?

If I want to cook one dish that suits everybody I've found that, in a rich strongly flavoured sauce, qood quality soya mince is virtually indistinguishable from "real" mince and even a very determined carnivore will eat it happily.

My partner loathes brassicas, chard and spinach - not because he is picky but because they actually make him throw up. I always mention this to people when we visit to avoid any difficulties - it is, after all, easy enough to cook something that doesn't include them.

Once, despite warning our friend beforehand, she cooked a lasagne with spinach actually layered through the dish. He nobly ate around all the greenery but had to disappear half way through the meal to throw up. I think that she must (stupidly) have imagined that he was just a picky eater despite what I had said. I have to confess that I wished for a moment that he had simply thrown up over his lasagne....

I'm not vegetarian or vegan but I can understand that some people feel very strongly about avoiding all meat products, which is fair enough. I just can't bear those who cover up faddy eating by falsely labelling themselves as either.

I think it's quite noticeable and hilarious how much hidden resentment of vegans and vegetarians come out in this thread. Obvs lots of people find it a bit weird or even annoying. I think that it's anyone's right to live as they choose, and as a host, or accompanying a vegetarian/vegan eating out, there needs have never bothered me or caused any trouble. Most vegans and vegetarians are quite flexible and accommodating about their needs, and will find something to make do in most situations. If they're not, and are demanding and moaning, then this is a personality feature that comes out in this way too, and not caused by their vegan/vegetarianism!

With regards to the original OP, then I hardly think that her reading out comments and bitching about the vegan guest can come as a surprise. Her resentment of the guest was clear from the first post. It sounded as if she didn't genuinely like the guest, and was prone to getting irritated at a small thing the guest would do. This may, or may not, have other legitimate reasons, perhaps not even to do with the guest's veganism.

On a general note. I find unwelcoming hosts unbearable. It is something I've seen several times: People invite you to their house, or someplace else, but in some cases they don't genuinely want to, they just feel pressured to throw a party or invite you. This underlying resentment then shines through in them not being genuinely hospitable, but instead being inflexible in meeting guests needs and unnecessarily anal about their behaviour, to the extent of even policing guests behaviour, like the OP did. I feel that if you don't genuinely want to throw a dinner party, or don't genuinely want a certain guest there, then don't! It's just uncomfortable for you and the guests. If you have to invite a certain person along who you don't want, then at least resolve to have good manners and be welcoming to that person. On the contrary, there's nothing better than a genuinely hospitable host, who go out of their way to make guests feel comfortable and relaxed. And this includes catering to guests different needs, and not being annoyed if they behave in small ways that you did not expect. Of course, if someone is genuinely rude or out of order, it is acceptable to feel pissed off about it, but small things like ASKING FOR A BITER OF FISH, really does not classify as rudeness.

but small things like ASKING FOR A BITER OF FISH, really does not classify as rudeness

Are people wilfully missing the point or are they just as rude as the fake vegan in the OP?
ASking for fish is not rude. ASking for fish after you have requested your veganism to be accommodated, after your host has bought and cooked 3 courses of vegan food specially for you is rude.
Anyone arguing otherwise must be equally as bad a guest if they can't see that.

Also, asking for a bit of fish is not really a mistake in thinking that particular dish was appropriate for a vegan.

Certainly a little bit did hurt the fish that had to be caught and killed.

I can just imagine that I'd be too shocked to reply, "are you fucking kidding me?"

You could take it as a compliment to your irresistible cooking penguin.

I think you are missing the point of what being a welcoming and good host means, Penguin. To me that means being accommodating of your guests wishes and desires and not policing their behaviour. Like I said earlier, if you really genuinely did not mind cooking a special vegan meal, then you would not have been bothered by the guest showing an ability to eat something else. The OP clearly resented having to cook the meal in the first place, and that, to me, is not welcoming and friendly at all.

Everyone can eat vegan food, because of one vegan guest

There's two sorts of vegan food.

There's the joyful, well-cooked, interesting food, full of flavour and texture. Your local South Indian sweet centre or restaurant will be like this: a huge range of options, lovingly prepared, and a pleasure to eat. It's defined by what it is, not by what it isn't. I eat that sort of food a lot.

Then there's the grim, joyless lentil sludge of your local "vegan co-operative" restaurant, where they are deeply suspicious of the idea of pleasure in food because of the starving millions, and food is simply a matter of calories and nutrients. Mercifully, I don't go to those places any more.

It's the difference between "here's a lovely meal (sotto voce, which doesn't have animal products in it)" and "here's a meal which will fill you up, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANIMAL PRODUCTS IN IT, AND NO IT ISN'T FUNNY".

Of course, the same's true of food more generally: the "I don't live to eat, I live to eat" Calvinists with their overcooked meat and overboiled vegetables can be found everywhere. My self-flagellating vegans are a particularly tedious breed. And as others have pointed out, when they are basically using it as a cover for fussy eating so long menus in veggie/vegan restaurants contain almost nothing they will eat, it becomes even more tedious.

I think you are missing the point of what being a welcoming and good host means, Penguin. To me that means being accommodating of your guests wishes and desires and not policing their behaviour

I disagree. I am a welcoming and good host. If you told me you were a sugar-free coeliac vegan who didn't like vegetables or fruit or grains of any kind, I would still happily cook you a full three course meal, and serve it with a smile.
However if you then ate the steak and chocolate cake, I would inwardly curse you and take you straight off the list for another invite. Because you'd be an ass-hat.

but the guest didn't eat a stake and chocolate cake, did she? She asked to try a bite of fish. Not the same thing at all.

Penguin I know the dairy industry has problems which is why I buy organic milk - not sure personally if it is any better for the animals but hat my choice. I'm not perfect by any means.

This isn't directed at you but it pisses me off when a certain type of person discovers I am vegetarian finds glee in spouting all the many ways in which I actually am not - the poster mentioning vegetarian computer and mobile phone useage being an example.

There are many ways in which a person (not just vegetarian) has to make choices based on their own personal values and it's pretty much impossible to do anything without compromise.

I make the best choices I can within the options I am presented with, like we all do.

I think you are missing the point of what being a welcoming and good host means, Penguin. To me that means being accommodating of your guests wishes and desires and not policing their behaviour.

You should throw a dinner party with TooBad. But remember: when a bunch of omnivores snaffle up the veggie lasagne, leaving nothing but meat and side salad for the vegetarians, it's okay to 'police' that behaviour, because they're being rude. Okay, so you all want veggie lasagne, but not all wishes and desires can be accommodated! Show some consideration!

But don't question the vegan eating non-vegan food. So what if it means the host wasted time and money preparing special food? You should have whatever you fancy, whenever you want! You're a guest!

Like I said earlier, if you really genuinely did not mind cooking a special vegan meal, then you would not have been bothered by the guest showing an ability to eat something else.

OP did not start this thread pre-dinner, moaning 'god, I can't believe I have to cook a vegan meal', and then updating it with 'WTF? she ate the fish!'. OP went to the trouble of making an unnecessary vegan meal.

It's not about resenting vegans/vegetarians. It's about being annoyed with over-entitled flakes who claim to have restricted diets, request you accommodate them, and then reveal you're catering to preferences, not restrictions. This behaviour irritates omnivores and genuine vegetarians/vegans alike.

but the guest didn't eat a stake and chocolate cake, did she? She asked to try a bite of fish. Not the same thing at all

It's exactly the same thing. She said she needed special food provided, then she blatantly told the host that she had wasted her time, money and effort, because she didn't really need it at all.
What part of it is hard to understand?

God there are some people who have no manners on this thread. Hint - it's not the people who are being unwelcoming hosts.

And if I'd spent hours carefully preparing a separate meal for someone for a particular diet for no reason, damn right I'd slag them off on MN. It's what it's for isn't it?

I have a lot of veggie friends. I even have some vegan friends. I'm happy to cook food for them to eat but they don't take the piss. And taking the piss, for the hard of thinking, is eating a food which you've explicitly told your host that you can't or won't eat

It's not about resenting vegans/vegetarians. It's about being annoyed with over-entitled flakes who claim to have restricted diets, request you accommodate them, and then reveal you're catering to preferences, not restrictions.

So what do you do if one of your guests says they prefer white wine to red Baboooska. Do you think: 'Sod it! I'm serving beef so you'll drink the red wine' or do you get in a bottle of white?

So what do you do if one of your guests says they prefer white wine to red Baboooska. Do you think: 'Sod it! I'm serving beef so you'll drink the red wine' or do you get in a bottle of white?

What a silly question! What has that got to do with anything?

And if you're a good guest, you bring wine.

Since when do guests specify preferences? Being invited to eat at someone's house is not the same as eating in a restaurant, you don't get to choose your meal, you just get to say what you can't eat for health or ethical reasons (and as for the latter it is polite to go easy - not demand organic, free-range GM-free produce cause that's what you buy for yourself).