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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - vegan dinner party guest EATING FISH

709 replies

isitginoclock · 13/05/2016 20:06

We're throwing a dinner party. I've just excused myself to the loo to write this because I'm FUMING!! One of our guests has recently become a vegan. I spent bloody ages making her a mushroom pate for starter which she happily tucked into whilst we ate our salmon tartare. She then asked if she could try some salmon.

Wtf?!?!

I've bought loads of different stuff for her to eat and spent all frigging day cooking it. Why do I bother?!

OP posts:
Offred · 15/05/2016 16:27

No, I'm using the dictionary definition of the word vegetarian. Hmm

Which clearly states only some vegetarians do not eat rennet/gelatine.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/05/2016 16:31

It doesn't bother me, but it obviously offends some people

It's not that it causes offence. It just makes things difficult for people who are vegetarian to know whether they can eat something if someone else decides "vegetarian" can include animal parts, as long as they're not visible on the plate.

If I hadn't checked whether my "vegetarian" starter at The Gherkin was actually free from animal ingredients, I'd have been presented with a dish that wasn't suitable for a vegetarian. This was a big family do, costing an arm and a leg. I have no idea what I'd have done if this had happened.

Offred · 15/05/2016 16:35

Why on earth does it?

If you know that some vegetarians DO NOT eat rennet or gelatine then you make vegetarian options without rennet and gelatine. Defining it that way does not at all imply people are free or encouraged to include ingredients that have rennet and gelatine in - when that happens it is usually because the cook has not understood that rennet and gelatine are animal products not because they have assumed vegetarians eat animal products.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/05/2016 16:35

I think it was a bit of both, jessie.

I confirmed my choices a month in advance (not that I had a choice - there was just one item for each course to say yes to!).

I was just surprised the chef knew so little about products with protected status that he didn't know Gorgonzola is made with animal rennet.

FeckOfffCup · 15/05/2016 16:36

OP said they ate the pate she made but asked to try a mouthful of the salmon pate. Tell me again how that was an inconvenience .....?

In my eyes it's an inconvenience because as it turns out she was quite happy to eat the salmon, so OP may as well have just given her the same as everyone else. Instead OP went to extra effort to cater for her and it turns out the 'vegan' would have eaten what everyone else was eating anyway. So waste of time on OP's part, even though the 'vegan' ate the meal provided for her.

bruffin · 15/05/2016 16:37

It doesnt matter that she ate the pate or not. If OP had known that her guest ate fish, then she wouldnt have to make the effort of making her a seperate started

harrisntasha · 15/05/2016 16:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/05/2016 16:38

Hello again, offred Smile

Now you're back, any chance of you finally answering my question of why your DD can't say she doesn't eat meat or fish instead of saying she's vegetarian?

Offred · 15/05/2016 16:40

Because she is a vegetarian and a child so if she says she doesn't eat meat and fish people assume she is a fussy eater and she ends up only being able to eat bread and ice cream.

Do you think she should be forced to eat flesh against her will just because you personally don't eat rennet or gelatine in your vegetarian diet?

Offred · 15/05/2016 16:43

why should she say that?

People don't understand rennet and gelatine are animal products, that's why they are sometimes included in veggie options. It is nothing to do with some vegetarians drawing the line at flesh and others at animal products.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/05/2016 16:45

I've read through your post twice now, offred, and none if it makes any sense, I'm afraid.

Upthread you said she was given bread and ice-cream when she said she was vegetarian, so how is that different from what happens when she says she doesn't eat meat or fish? Confused

SuburbanRhonda · 15/05/2016 16:48

People don't understand rennet and gelatine are animal products

Are you in the UK, offred?

People certainly do know, which is why food packaging does not label products containing gelatine or rennet as suitable for vegetarians.

kathyjoy · 15/05/2016 16:50

FeckOfffCup

Did the guest know this effort was being made? Did they ask for it? If not, then it was an inconvenience OP made for themselves and is not the fault of her guest. You can make as much effort as you like but if it hasn't been asked for, you can't really get mad about it. Besides they just asked for a bite. It might be a sign that they're struggling with their new diet (changing to veganism counts as a diet change even if it's not to lose weight but rather fueled by moral choice) and OP's first thought is to fly into a blind rage about it rather than wondering whether they need encouragement to stick to their guns. They happily ate their own food. And just saying they're a vegan doesn't count. OP could've made something simpler - like a salad. It sounds like they chose to go the extra mile. Their guest ate and enjoyed the food but just wanted to try the other thing they worked hard on. There's nothing to really get angry about.

Offred · 15/05/2016 16:56

People should know, but they don't. Just because they should know that some cheese has animal rennet in and that sweets/mousses have gelatine which is an animal product does not mean they do know.

I do not believe it is at all to do with people thinking vegetarians eat animal products where they are used in veggie food and if it were there is no excuse anyway because he definition is clear - some vegetarians do not eat animal products.

Places where we go that do not have a veggie option like theme parks, restaurants or after school club that is what she has to eat. If she is asked someone is prepared to cater vegetarian so she wouldn't necessarily have to eat bread/ice cream. If she says she is veggie she gets proper food, what possible benefit is there to saying she 'doesn't eat meat or fish'? It is less clear and easier to disregard.

Krooski · 15/05/2016 17:03

If she's only just become vegan, maybe she's finding it still difficult to be totally vegan. You know, like when you try to lose weight but you can't resist a piece of cake. Maybe the fish just smelled too good for her to resist. And she loved the vegan stuff too, didn't she? Take it as a compliment! You're such a great cook that even vegans can't resist your seafood. :-)

And why is she vegan? Is it for health reasons? Because in that case she might just be able to eat a bit of fish, if she's been good for the rest of the day. Again, like when you're on a diet... you may have starved yourself just so you could have that delicious fluffy piece of cake later. (Can you tell that I'm on a diet?)

Of course it's also possible that she just 'being vegan' to be fashionable or something, which is indeed incredibly annoying, but not worth getting all worked up about!

AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou · 15/05/2016 17:08

If she's only just become vegan, maybe she's finding it still difficult to be totally vegan

She hasn't become a vegan if she is still eating fish!

It's really not complicated. If you eat fish, you are not a vegetarian or a vegan. If you eat chicken, you are not a vegetarian or a vegan. If you eat rennet or gelatine, you are not a vegetarian or a vegan. It doesn't matter if you're 9, or if you're ill, or if you're confused, or if you are trying to be vegan or vegetarian: you are not a vegetarian or a vegan.

Why is this such a difficult concept for so many people?

SuburbanRhonda · 15/05/2016 17:09

Have a look on the Vegetarian Society website, the body that approves many foods and advises supermarkets on labelling. There's no way they would say an enzyme removed from the stomach of calves slaughtered for the veal industry us suitable for vegetarians and they are right. I doubt your DD would either, if her choice is an ethical one.

Look at food packaging. All the major supermarkets know what a vegetarian foodstuff is. There are still some people who don't get it (The Gherkin, for one), but when it comes to the food industry, they are in the minority.

Can I ask again - are you in the UK? It seems very unusual to have theme parks and restaurants with no vegetarian option available.

pearlylum · 15/05/2016 17:10

I was helping run a playgroup some years ago.
For a small fee (1.50) children had play and a snack .
Sometimes when a child had a birthday some parents would take in extra food and a cake to celebrate a birthday.
Kids were assembled at a table, organisers were helpful, all food was veggie.
Someone had put a pile of marshmallows on the table.
DS 2.5 was happily stuffing marshmallows into his face.
His mother came raging over, caused the boy to spit up,and tried to get him to drink a large glass of salty water in the kitchen.

AndTakeYourPenguinWithYou · 15/05/2016 17:12

Can I ask again - are you in the UK? It seems very unusual to have theme parks and restaurants with no vegetarian option available

Good question: there are always vegetarian options available.

Lweji · 15/05/2016 17:15

And she loved the vegan stuff too, didn't she? Take it as a compliment! You're such a great cook that even vegans can't resist your seafood.

Not sure about that one.

I'd have suspected she wanted to change the taste of the mushroom paté. Grin

SuburbanRhonda · 15/05/2016 17:15

tried to get him to drink a large glass of salty water in the kitchen

I hope you stopped her, pearly.

VioletSunshine · 15/05/2016 17:17

Upthread you said she was given bread and ice-cream when she said she was vegetarian, so how is that different from what happens when she says she doesn't eat meat or fish?
Some people are less likely to be accommodating or respectful of her dietary requirements if she expresses them in a way that can be perceived as being a fussy eater, as opposed to making the conscious decision not to eat certain things for moral or ethical reasons. Saying she's vegetarian implies her requirements are a choice based on her beliefs and ethics.

I mean, there are also people who will not respect such things regardless of the whys, but when the perception is "fussy", the attitude that can sometimes follow is "well I'll try and get them to eat this or that, they'll never know".

That's what I get from Offred's posts anyhow.

Why get so hung up on what words a 9 year old uses to describe themselves (a word that actually fits by most people's definitions), when there are adults with years of experience paying lipservice at best to vegetarianism?
Surely the adults who loudly proclaim to be vegetarian or vegan, who insist people be respectful of that, then turn around and eat meat or animal products "as a treat" are doing more harm to people's understanding of vegetarianism/veganism than a child who has a well thought out reason for eating meat one day of the year?

Re. The judgey comments: I don't think some should complain when they're more than happy to use terms that describe animal eating behaviours to describe people. Either you care about animals and their welfare, or you see them as beneath you and will liken fellow humans to what animals do, when said humans do something you don't like /shrug

puglife15 · 15/05/2016 17:19

I thought marshmallows were a choking hazard for little kids? That aside I think the Mum had a right to be raging... the salt water maybe taking it too far though.

I know someone who is veggie, partly for religious reasons and would have made herself sick of she ate meat accidentally (which I once witnessed after she was served the wrong dish in a restaurant). Fair enough I think.

limitedperiodonly · 15/05/2016 17:20

the chef at The Gherkin obviously thought "vegetarian" meant "no visible body parts on the plate".

He shouldn't suburban. I wouldn't think that and I am not a professional cook and caterer. If he doesn't know, he shouldn't be in the job. I find it very hard to believe that he doesn't know what the terms vegetarian or vegan mean, so would guess that he didn't care. As a meat eater I am as concerned as you, because if he doesn't know or care about something so fundamental, what else doesn't he know or care about? The Gherkin restaurant has just been crossed off my list.

His attitude is not the same as some random member of the public.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/05/2016 17:22

Some people are less likely to be accommodating or respectful of her dietary requirements if she expresses them in a way that can be perceived as being a fussy eater

I understand what you're saying. But offred's DD knows she's not a fussy eater.

But you have to learn resilience when you stick your head above the parapet as she's done (and good for her!).

If people choose to believe she's a fussy eater, offred should be telling her DD that's their problem.