Termtime holidays, father wins High Court case

[namechangeparents]

Quite surprised about the outcome actually but haven't read the legislation to see exactly what it says. Just hope lots of local authorities don't have to pay back fines now, because there will be even more cuts to services.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36277940

Looks like an Education Act might be added to the Queen's Speech next week to resolve the issue rather than relying on the Court of Appeal maybe?

My children had about 60% attendance and obtained A* grades at GCSE. They have chronic health issues. I think the whole attainment and attendance thing is a load of rubbish.

The truency children will have SEND and truest due to bullying, not having their needs met by school or school phobia. ANY parent with a child considered to have SEND will tell you it's not easy to get state support. A child with SEN will struggle regardless with grades. I hope someone brighter than myself can pull this research apart and show it for the bullshit it is.

i agree with Stanky there are things in life more important than a child missing the odd day at school here and there. This is all getting scary - the social control of the populace - would have been unthinkable when my youngest was at school.

My children's schools recently gave me permission to attend my eldest child's wedding- because I can't go and leave his siblings in school home alone for three days - awfully kind of them - am I supposed to be grovellingly grateful? Did they or HMG really think they have the power to stop me going? Why would any government or public servant who cares about its people ever want to do that anyway? That scares the hell out of me. The whole asking for permission thing is a ridiculous charade and a means to exert power. No sense of perspective - I shouldn't even have to ask just inform them. Grown ups lives jobs responsibilities etc do not revolve around the school calendar.

I know what I and my children will regret on our deathbed and it wouldn't be those missed days sat in a classroom. And before anyone has a go at me for not caring about education - my eldest DCs graduated with very good degrees and have good jobs and I teach at a great University. I care very much about my children's education (in and out of school) but have a long term view.

Trotting out this dogma that missing even one day is harmful to a child's education (as I keep hearing ministers saying) is utter unfounded rubbish and causes huge anxiety amongst students and parents. It is never too late to learn (I didn't get to University til I was in my 30s) and I tell my kids if they fail exams they just keep trying and taking them til they pass - noone should be written off like that and told its now or never - missed a day's schooling because you were sick? Might as well give up dear you'll never catch up now - stacking shelves is all you'll ever be fit for.

This isn't about what is best for children - it's about what is best for HMG and the careers of politicians.

Who are these employers who won't allow an adult to take any time off in school holidays?

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The trouble is a lot of businesses there a re a lot of so rents. And they all want time off in the same six week block, or the same one week/two week break.

Not everyone can have the time off at the same time.

So the business may allow holidays in the summer but not everyone can take them.

And how do they decide who gets them? First person with dates in? Parents with school aged children? Alternate years? None of those end up working overly fair due to staff changeover, other requirements, etc.

And if they change the holidays so it's a 4 week break it's hardly going to improve either.

I didn't have to work hard to persuade my dc the school were parting prats about attendance and attainment. My dc made their own observations about foolish schill nonsense. The OTT weirdness over uniform so staff can bully children within rules nonsense and victim blaming girls for owning legs and males perverted minds etc...

I fought for extra time in exams and that was more important when it came to attainment levels for myself and my children.

That paper is apparently (ego talked about it at length before) dodgy anyway, eg doesnt distinguish between children who have tough homelives and miss odd days because of that, and children taking pre-arranged holidays. Basically using the 'lowest common denominator' (i'm quoting from elsewhere) to make rules that dont apply to the general population.

Sorry for my typos I am not well. I am not daft either and brought up ill children alone who do well at school, despite barriers, bullying and little help from the state.

I also think the scool hated us for breaking the mold. They think lone parent, health issues, low attendance = failure and wrote us off. They were not happy when my dc did well in exams. Weirdos! You would think they would use my children to inspire other SEND children, no they cover it up as it doesn't suit the narrative.

I'm also not convinced by staggered holidays. It can make booking holidays challenging for some people.

If you are a teacher or school staff and work in a neighbouring LEA - you risk not being on holiday at the same time. This can then have an impact not only on holiday as but also childcare.

If you want to holiday with family and friends - difficult to arrange if different holiday dates.

If you holiday within the country - half the attractions are closed esp off season due to different term dates. We had that when we went to Cornwall once February half term - different half term so none of the children's activities available and some of the places aimed at children were not open.

However it can help with costs. We went log haul at February half term and it code a lot less as we had a different half term. Same next year - but only in some counties. So we won't fly from Manchester as they are on holiday at same time, but will fly from London as its a different week. As a result the flights are just under £1000 less for three of us. Doesn't help in terms of going away with friends in a different county though.

Silvertap - I know several people with children who pay for education. And yes many do take their children out for various reasons including holidays. There are no additional fines/charges for doing so. Dd will be missing a day for a wedding. There will be no issue at all for her to do so. She will be expected to catch up in her own time and not miss any deadlines, but that's it.

It never effected me being off

Are you sure about that?!

(sorry, cheap shot, I know)

Good job the HT hasn't got anything else to do.

Bit late coming back to this but surely that's what they do anyway only at the moment they are having to also deal with the parents who want a few days off for a family holiday as well? Just because they are having to deal with parents who take the children out of school for a family holiday, doesn't negate the need for them to deal with truancy or long to absences.

By a genuine problem, I mean where truancy is an going issue or where perhaps a family takes their children out each year for a month to go abroad to visit family which I seem to remember was a problem at my school in the 90s. I'm not saying visiting family isn't important but obviously a month off school each year isn't practical and adds up to a lot over a 13 year education!

*term not to

When I was at school in the 90's we were allowed 10 days off a year as long as attendance was ok. It never effected me being off

No. Obviously it didn't AFFECT you!

I don't want to blame schools or HT here - I think the pressure they are put under by HMG and Ofsted is ridiculous and mostly counter productive - both I and my Year 5 DC are baffled as to why she has been doing practise SATs papers for the last three weeks It takes a strong HT to stand up to it - but I have fortunately known several who stand as a firm shield between their staff and students and HMG.

I just wish HT were properly recognised for the professional qualified experts that they are and HMG delegated properly and let them get on with their jobs - including setting the curriculum.

HMM want parrot people who go to work, pay tax and do as told. They don't want children taught critical thinking, they don't waNT SAHP's or providing useful state services. It's all about job creation schemes and taxation.

I'm surprised that so many poster's are agreeing with stanky who attests that people are 'so unhappy'.

I'm very sorry for people with depression but people are not generally unhappy/unhappier! What a strange and inaccurate generalisation.

Those two sentences completely contradict each other.

HMG

God there are some twats on this thread.

Agree entirely with stanky. Great posts.

The reason the guidance is in place is for children whose parents don't give a shit. It isn't for kids whose parents care and just want to take them on a nice holiday.
This judgement supports truancy for slack parents.
I still think the cultural arguement is rather thin. A week in Florida isn't exactly going to add to anyone's life although it might be fun.

Just caught a bit about this on bbc morning programme. The headteacher I wouldn't want my child to be in her school. She was firmly of the opinion that parents are imbecilic twats and it is only the teachers and schools that have the students best interest at heart and that even missing one session should be against the law.

Interesting to see how BBC presenters badgered the parent so much even after she quoted the proper research and sources to support her argument but let the headteacher trot out her bullshit without any challenge

Except, as we all know, attendance at school is not the only factor in attainment

Of course not. But it is one that schools/the Government can have some kind of handle on and it is something which quite clearly impacts in a positive way on educational outcomes. Would you prefer it if schools/the Government didn't give two hoots whether your children pass their exams or not?

The problem has never been with 'typical' families taking a week or two every couple of years but otherwise having excellent atttendance; it's with the families who take many weeks/months off every year, usually to visit family abroad and with the children who live in difficult family situations and have poor attendance due to that (drink, drugs, truancy etc). It's the classic sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

I have a child with chronic health issues who's hospital consultant wants him to have four days off in June (year 9) for some treatment- the school have approved it with no issue (rightly so) and the letter said that they were sure that he would catch up quickly. But if I took him out of school for a holiday, particularly in year 9, I would be fined.

DD (year 5) had one day off as her Grandparents booked to take her away without asking us parents first- it went down as unauthorised but I wasn't fined. the only other time she has had off this year is when the school have sent her home ill. My other child has had 100% attendance at school for the last four years (and about 98% before that). We are not a family who take their children out of school often at all. It's ridiculous that I now feel unable to take them out even for a day for something worthwhile (eg they had a day off a few years ago to go to the Garter Ceremony at Windsor Castle- very educational but not exceptional?!

Coldest, I can image her enjoying picking on some kid because of a small break of her pointless uniform rules or blaming girls for a perverted male. She seems a horrible heartless bitch.

I'm going to be honest and say I don't give two hoots if a holiday has a cultural and educational element to it and I don't think should have to in order for a term time holiday to be deemed worthy. The joy on my child's face when he met Optimus Prime at Universal will stay with me forever. Fun, relaxation, being with family are good enough reasons.