Termtime holidays, father wins High Court case

[namechangeparents]

Quite surprised about the outcome actually but haven't read the legislation to see exactly what it says. Just hope lots of local authorities don't have to pay back fines now, because there will be even more cuts to services.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36277940

Looks like an Education Act might be added to the Queen's Speech next week to resolve the issue rather than relying on the Court of Appeal maybe?

A common sense approach is required but I seriously doubt this will happen. Let parents take responsibility for their children's education. Most parents do not take their kids out of school for holidays on a regular basis. Parents know that missing out on lots of school is not good but sometimes it might be necessary.

I don't see why everyone is supporting this tbh. Agree 93% is not great attendance and why are we cheering on a guy who routinely takes his kids away during term time? They are not going to see the pyramids or the Louvre, they are going to Disney land. Am I missing something but why is this amazing life experience or education?

What is wrong with sticking to school holidays? Yes holidays are more expensive but holidays aren't some kind of human right!

Maybe a two week block of 'time' with the child's parents is the valuable part, not the location?

People are supporting this result because the LA were grossly overreaching. The statute doesn't back up fines for term time holidays with no consideration of the overall rate of attendance. And because plenty of us consider ourselves much better able to judge what's in our children's interests than the LA, don't appreciate being treated as though this isn't the case because some parents are useless, and don't agree with this level of state interference in family life. So to be clear, I for one am not cheering on this gentleman because of his children's level of attendance. I'm cheering him on because unlike a lot of people, he didn't roll over when treated unjustly, was willing to risk five figure debt to fight it, and most of all, because he's right.

Their attendance was pretty poor, below national target/average.

I disagree with fining though. However in the small school I governor at the odd absence really hits our stats, we had a set of triplets go away for a fortnight the other term and it knocked the figures for six! We are on the Isle of Wight like this chap, but are the only school on the Island to not fine.

Children can have a 'two week block of time' with their parents during the school holidays.

I agree with mumontherin. I think there is huge value in quality family time not necessarily where the holiday is.
My personal view is that there should be stricter restrictions at certain times of the year based on school year as this would provide a bit of flexibility and ensure children didn't miss vital things etc.
The flip side is that if people are allowed to take holidays in term time again the prices would go up, the holiday time prices wouldn't drop.
I also think there is a difference between a family taking regular holidays in term time and families that do one off special holidays that are only affordable within term time, eg Disney.

Agree Lemonade. And sorry, bumble, but I love the irony

As long as the kids' termtime absence causes no extra work whatsoever for the teachers, and no disruption for the other students, then fair enough ... but not sure this is the case, thus it's selfish and entitled.

I was very recently a teacher. Children having holiday caused no extra work for me or disruption to other children. I would be differentiating in a number of ways for the class anyway.

Children can have a 'two week block of time' with their parents during the school holidays.

Except, of course, for all the children who can't.

It doesn't affect me now but I don't mind them passing a law as long as it goes hand in hand with another law that means holiday companies and airlines can't increase the costs of holidays and flights when it is school holidays.
That's the feckin' issue here.
It's so so expensive to take your kids on holiday when you are supposed to thanks to greedy companies cashing in on this.
Don't allow them to cash in then all will be good.

Nanny state will strike again.
You will NOT have any say in what your kids do.
It will be imposed on you and you WILL be happy about it.
So there!!!

DfE have said this case will lead to a national level (England) law change so I don't think there will be any flexibility for schools or LAs soon.

They should take it back to being HT discretion imo. They are the ones who know what sort of impact time off would have on that specific child, and to me that's what is important.

I also think fines should be given to the individual school, perhaps with a small part removed for admin to cover the team that issue/chase the payments. If the issue is that children going on holiday disrupts the schools then the schools should receive the financial reimbursement for that disruption.

93% attendance is not good attendance. I am sure there are a small number of parents who cannot take a holiday in the school holidays but this is a very small number. In my experience it is just about getting a cheaper holiday.

jellyfrizz thank you! This is what my teacher friends tell me too. It's so annoying hearing the endless droning about how it's unfair on the other kids because it takes time away from them to help the absent child catch up.

One particular teacher friend tells me this law is "a pile of shit, oh and you can put SATS in that pile too"

It's most refreshing.

another law that means holiday companies and airlines can't increase the costs of holidays and flights when it is school holidays.
That's the feckin' issue here.

I read this thread and was waiting to see how long it was before someone said this.

hellsbells. it is supply and demand. if you run a family friendly holiday business and you have 52 weeks to make a living in then you can charge less for the peak weeks than if you only have 13 weeks to make a living in. why is this such a difficult concept?

I cheered when I heard the news but was completely unsurprised that the govt want to change things. However, I think they are going to find it hellishly difficult. what do they change it to? have to be in school unless you have a doctors note? have to be in school 100% of the time?

I am going to write to my MP now to ask him to support giving back power to the heads. as far as I can see the Gove legislation is dead in the water.

Supply and demand - absolutely.
Taking the piss! NOT OK.

Yep, also think this is bad news in general as the govt will just use this case as a reason to change the law to be more draconian, not less. Soon it will be illegal to take your child out of school except for medical situations, you'll see.

I really don't understand why people feel so strongly that people should be fined. If you are doing what you think is right for your child why would you be worried about what other people do?

Fines don't work as a deterrent, overall absence has gone UP since they were introduced.

And the government's own figures show that as long as attendance is 90% or above it doesn't have much affect on achievement.

Its true that 93% isn't great but the normal threshold for taking action is 90% and there is no mention of 'holidays' as being different. So it is a fair decision as the 90% is then a precedent of what can be seen as 'regular attendance'.

I think there are two things here: Is it right to go on holiday in termtime? I'm of the opinion no. But is it right to make it illegal? I'm of the opinion no I don't agree with lots of things including the DFE thinking they have the power to do whatever they bloody well like.

Does anyone know what the majority was when this was passed? It's such an unpopular policy, I would hope they'd take this opportunity to change it.

Selfishly, I am glad we are coming to the end of primary school years for dd and it's unlikely a law will be passed before she finishes. I wouldn't take her out in secondary anyway.

This is the wording taken from the gov.uk page.

It is still at HT discretion, it is up to the headteacher to decide whether to allow or not.

It is only some schools & local authorities who decided to interpret 'exceptional circumstances' in more stringent ways than others.

Our schools, for example, allow term time holidays so long as it's not all the time & doesn't impact.
A one off Disney trip is fine - taking your kids out to ski, Disney & other holiday in one single year is not & has never been 'exceptional circumstances'.

Holidays in term time
You have to get permission from the head teacher if you want to take your child out of school during term time.
You can only do this if:
• you make an application to the head teacher in advance (as a parent the child normally lives with)
• there are exceptional circumstances
It’s up to the head teacher how many days your child can be away from school if leave is granted.
You can be fineded_ for taking your child on holiday during term time without the school’s permission.*

I took DD out to see an eclipse, and got fined a few hundred quid. I really wish I'd done this! I wonder whether we can claim back old fines, like with PPI?!

I'm glad the father won his case, however this quote
"We will look at the judgement in detail but are clear children's attendance is non-negotiable so we will now look to change the law," said a spokesman for the Department for Education.
"We also plan to strengthen statutory guidance to schools and local authorities."
doesn't sound as though the government are planning to move in the direction of common sense - it makes me worry that they will try and move towards criminalising parents for absences.

As a secondary school teacher, I agree with this man and the ruling. It's daft to do this GCSE and A levels but apart from that I find it makes no difference at all to kids to miss a week or two of school.