Termtime holidays, father wins High Court case

[namechangeparents]

Quite surprised about the outcome actually but haven't read the legislation to see exactly what it says. Just hope lots of local authorities don't have to pay back fines now, because there will be even more cuts to services.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36277940

Looks like an Education Act might be added to the Queen's Speech next week to resolve the issue rather than relying on the Court of Appeal maybe?

Nancy75 - I would go before she dies so she can spend time with her family rather than going to her funeral. IYSWIM.

Surely under the old Head's discretion that would be OK?

Why are parents fined for truency? I think it's s hooks fault. If a child didn't want to go home SS would get involved and blame the parent . If a child doesn't want to go to school the focus should be on why the school is failing the child not criminalise g parents for the failing of the educators.

good point social

It's still down to headteacher discretion, that never changed.
All that changed was that they put in into actual words that holidays would be case by case in exceptional circumstances.

Some Local Authorities and schools choose to interpret it more draconianly than others.

A few people on this thread have said that their schools are ok with the occasional term time holiday, providing the pupil's attendance is usually good.

My DD has just returned from a holiday during term time. School had no problem although obviously can't authorize the absence. We are in Scotland though so different laws.

FOD - very different in Scotland than in England. In our area it seems all requests are refused and letters sent.

I do imagine the Ed Secretary sitting there this evening burning the midnight oil doing lots mwah ha has about a cunning plan to stitch us all up further rather than to go back to the old system.

in the interim though, does this mean that people whose kids have 90+% attendance can just say to the school and the AO, tough we are going?

wonder if we are going to see a sudden spike in absences.

I'm not sure why this was directed towards me confused. Do you imagine The fact not everyone can afford to go on holiday is news?

I was agreeing with your post, you said holidays are important and made you who you are - I agreed - " without a doubt they are" and that even the caravan holidays are expensive now....

I am not sure why that elicited such a rude response from you - perhaps you mis read my post.

No daily fines in my area but to make sure its "fair" the council has stopped any approvals from headteachers. And the threat of a big fine still stands, should the welfare officer not be happy with what you are doing. Luckily she was fine about the DCs having a big chunk of time off, and even otr agreed that we should book for next year!

I suppose it depends on the school but a friend of mie who is a teacher has taken odd days off school for weddings and the Friday before the holidays. I think he does it by swapping his PPA time around and then covering for another teacher when they need a half day. It doesn't happen regularly but it does happen. And no I don't think they get unpaid leave as such but frequently teachers at his school take a day off for a sick child (don't know if they get pay deducted though)

Different in Wales too.

I'm in wales, it varies as much per county here as it does in england!

Shouldn't for long as the Welsh Government have clarified what LAS should be doing.

Exactly. And when you sign your child up for school, you know the terms and conditions of that too (sending them in on time, wearing the correct uniform, doing homework etc). If you wish to opt out of the "contract" of sending your child to school then you have the option of getting a tutor, or homeschooling them yourself.

It has now been pointed out several times exactly why that is such a stupid argument. Not only did the majority of school aged children enter education under a completely different contract, but you'd have to be living on a different planet to think that homeschooling or private education is actually an option for the bulk of the population. This talk of choice is laughable. Most people don't have one. Nobody voted for this policy either, it wasn't in the manifesto. And lastly, the fundamental principle that we can do whatever shit we want with public services because hey, you don't have to use them (even though you do really) is objectionable in itself. It shouldn't be a get out clause for a government that we can introduce whatever unpopular, no mandate ideas we like for an essential public service because ner ner, you can go away somewhere else if you don't like it, peasant.

I should think there are a number of political researchers, MP interns etc reading this thread. It's happened before, with this sort of issue. Take note guys. Look at the strength of feeling.

I was relatively sympathetic until I heard it wasn't a one off for this father. Personally I will need to take parental leave from my job to cover the holidays so the idea of taking my child out of school for even more holiday leaves me

Is it a legitimate entrance criteria for schools to specify no term time holidays? Seems a bit off to take a place then not to use 10% of it by intent

Yes, I'm in Wales and school is enforcing fines to much dismay, but school roll is so small the requested holiday absences are making a serious dent into the overall attendance figures, and we've an Estyn inspection due, so that rather curtails the 'HT discretion'.
She's getting a lot of flack but with Estyn reports going onto Zoopla and such it could concievably affect the school's future.

I'm amazed that people are able to take a week or two term time holiday (whilst complaining about struggling to pay for term time holidays and being able to get time off) And yet are still able to sort out childcare for the 13 weeks of holidays. I'm struggling to cover the 13 weeks, without having our family holiday in term time. I'm not a fan of term time holidays generally, I wouldn't do it with my child as I think it would send the wrong message to her.

And it's not so different in Scotland, Schools here in some LAs are more strict about this than others. My nephew at 7 years old, was refused two days off to spend with my sister and her partner (who had lived with them for five years) before the partner was going off to Afghanistan with the RAF. This was in the last week before the summer holidays started and in an area where there was an RAF base. She was told she would be fined if she took him out of School.

*Personally, I think the ten days should be a right.

I can't remember why these changes were introduced in the first place, ie what was the problem they were seeking to fix?*

It was changed from the 10 days because parents thought it was a right. And judging by those insisting the rules are very different now, it would seem that many did see it as their right.

No, just a couple of hundred miles drive and more time off work, you don't have to accommodate that.
And yet a million Scottish parents manage to do just that at the beginning of July before the English holidays start.

Yes, I'm in Wales and school is enforcing fines to much dismay, but school roll is so small the requested holiday absences are making a serious dent into the overall attendance figures, and we've an Estyn inspection due, so that rather curtails the 'HT discretion'.

Ours has not long had an inspection (pretty small school I suppose). HT has always had a policy of authorising holiday wherever possible and we've the 2nd or 3rd highest attendance in the authority. A friend's school won't authorise anything and yet they're much further down the attendance rankings.

My husband gets told what holidays he has to take and he's not allowed any summer holidays.

He was given January off. That left us with 4 days of holidays before the start of term.This rule in school is pretty rubbish and I'm happy the man took the council to court over it.

My son had a day granted last year to go to France over the weekend, but apart from that he hasn't had any term time holidays in 4 years. Some discretion is needed.

I hope that the education law is not changed in order to overrule this ruling.

I don't think taking children out of school for a family holiday is going to make any difference to their final outcomes (GCSEs, A levels etc) providing the holidays are not taken at crucial times in the learning of the syllabus.

They cannot change the law without banning home ed and private schools. Currently the law says parents have to provide an education. Explicitly stating 30 weeks in school will ban home ed and require a definition of school to cover private provision.

This government wants people to be born, sent to nursery immediately so that the parents can get back to work work work, start school at 2 or 3 years old and stay until 18 at least. Get into mountains of debt and work work work. You're never quite good enough, try harder. Happiness is just out of reach, just round the corner. Just one more year. Keep working, you'll get there. Then you die.

Look at children's mental well being (and everyone else's), and it's pretty telling that something is very wrong. Suicide is the number one killer of men under 40 in the UK. Young children are getting stressed over exams. Every one is so unhappy, but that's not important. Facts and figures are important, stuff spending quality time with your family. There's work to do! No, you can't go on holiday! No, you can't see your Grandma one last time, or go to your family wedding. There's work to do, and that's what life is all about.

I really think that we have lost sight of what's really important, when people are fined for going on a lovely holiday with their family, when it's affordable, not too hot, not heaving with crowds and both parents can co ordinate time off work.

Sorry to ramble and not make sense, I am lacking in sleep and have depression.

Absolutely agree with you stanky. For a party who have always trumpeted 'family values' they're doing a very good job of buggering up the important things in society. Life's not all about making money you know...

Disclaimer - also suffer with depression so maybe my view is somewhat clouded

Who are these employers who won't allow an adult to take any time off in school holidays? The only ones I've come across are the Armed Forces, hence children of servicemen/women being excepted to the 'no term time holiday' rule when necessary.

Maybe a few people should take their employers to court claiming the 'right to family life' rather than councils to court claiming the right to remove their children from school for holidays?