Termtime holidays, father wins High Court case

[namechangeparents]

Quite surprised about the outcome actually but haven't read the legislation to see exactly what it says. Just hope lots of local authorities don't have to pay back fines now, because there will be even more cuts to services.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36277940

Looks like an Education Act might be added to the Queen's Speech next week to resolve the issue rather than relying on the Court of Appeal maybe?

Why should HTs spend hours adjudicating who is worthy or not? With the inevitable, why has little Tarquin been allowed a week off for a trip the Amazon while little Johnny hasn't for a week in Ibiza

I am really surprised by those teachers who are stropping because they cannot take advantage of this ruling.

Surely, you would think given your profession, you would have more of an opinion about the politics around this issue and how they play out on a day-to-day level in how parents and schools relate to one another - to reduce this to a ' it's not fair' battle-cry. Pathetic, just pathetic.

Personally, I think the ten days should be a right.

I can't remember why these changes were introduced in the first place, ie what was the problem they were seeking to fix?

I agree, children with excellent attendance records, should get a certain allocation of days.

surely thats more incentive for the regular truants families too?

Coldest
"Haha at the teachers complaining. 13 weeks holiday which coincide with those of your children is a luxury."

Its not a luxury, its the terms and conditions of the job.

I couldn't give a monkeys when parents take their children for holidays. 8 times out of ten its doesn't have any affect on me.

It is when parents complain that their children have missed x, y and z in years 10 and 11 and that the teachers should do extra that it annoys me.

I want to take mine out for two days, to attend DF 80thbday its 300 miles away.

it really annoys me, that I have to explain this - and ask "permission" and have the worry of being rejected!

I'm delighted with the ruling today. My children are almost finished with school so it won't particularly make any difference to us.

I'm lucky that my children are rarely ill and most years have managed 100% attendance. (Apart ironically from the year my son broke his nose in the school playground).

I can't understand why a weeks school trip to Italy or Cornwall or skiing is OK, but a weeks trip to the same destination with parents is not OK. Or why a school day trip to Alton Towers or a west end musical is OK, but if I wanted to take my children to the same place I'd be fined.

It's nonsense and I don't believe the law was meant to be interpreted the way it has been. Surely it was meant for dealing with truancy.

Sorry but if you can afford thousands (and lets be honest that is what it costs) on a holiday in Florida- you can afford to pay a £60 fine.

My dc go to different schools. Next year there are only 6 weeks which co-incide, two of those over Christmas. It makes it tricky to do things together or visit family for a couple of days as even when one school is off you still have to be back by a certain time for the other school to finish. If they tighten the law then they also need to stop schools moving holidays and have fixed nationwide holidays.

Coldest Is that accounting for staff training?

I don't envy teachers. Their average working hours per week is 60 (slightly less for secondary teachers). Even taking their holidays as 13 weeks, thats the equivalent of the rest (those with 5.6 weeks - 28 days holiday a year) working 50 hours a week.

Their working time often spills into personal time especially when marking homework. Also holidays don't always exactly coincide - the dates schools break can vary council to council.

I'm not a teacher but I know a few, and knowing the other side of it has taught me a respect for teachers as I didn't previously fully appreciate exactly what some of them do. You do get bad ones of course, but thats what the board is for.

The current education policy in a nutshell:

"Educators, treat paretns in a manner which reflects their complete inability to effectively parent".

"Parents, treat educators in a manner which reflects their complete inability to educate".

I despair.

I went on a school trip to EuroDisney in term time.

Why should HTs spend hours adjudicating who is worthy or not? With the inevitable, why has little Tarquin been allowed a week off for a trip the Amazon while little Johnny hasn't for a week in Ibiza

^this

Where there is a genuine problem, the HT should in my opinion discuss it with the family concerned on a case by case basis to work on improving it.

Good job the HT hasn't got anything else to do.

So are you saying that HT SHOULDN'T discuss school absence where its a problem?

Cos I think you misunderstood the point there.

Coldest
"Haha at the teachers complaining. 13 weeks holiday which coincide with those of your children is a luxury"

Yes, it's great. Have you considered a change in career? We need more teachers, after all! There's something of a recruitment crisis (can't think why!). Join us...

Why should HTs spend hours adjudicating who is worthy or not? With the inevitable, why has little Tarquin been allowed a week off for a trip the Amazon while little Johnny hasn't for a week in Ibiza

Its ok Tarquin goes to private school anyway...

glad to hear this and fully support giving the responsibility back to the headteacher - who knows the child. There are many reasons why children need to be away from school in addition to standard holidays for important family events - sometimes because the parents or another sibling need to be there - some things are more important in the grand scheme than yet another day in a classroom learning not very much (even if teaching is taking place - or as on DS primary two weeks of watching DVDs in the summer) that they will not remember when they are grown.

Am hoping a sense of perspective will prevail.

It's not all about little Johnny having a cheap week in the sun. There are so many people with family living far away or abroad. It is not always possible to visit family or attend family events in school holidays.

I recently got permission to take my five year old out of school for 8 days to go on holiday to Jamaica. It was our honeymoon, so slightly different circumstances, but still they didn't have to grant it. I think there is a lot of inconsistency in how these rules are applied.

I'm happy about the ruling. Next week we go to Spain for 7 days. Its the 1st time I've ever kept them off for a holiday and as my nan paid for it all I couldn't dictate dates. If I'm fined then I'll suck it up, but both school seem to think it'll be fine as they've only been off 2-3 times this year (genuinely ill). £360 is cheap for a week in Spain ;)

we live in a country that gets deluged in rain. what is so wrong about little johnny or tarquin or jocasta, or chelsea or brandon having a week in the bloody sun!

It's a defeat for an idea from Michael Gove which will bring a smile to many.

My feeling is that for something such as visiting a relative abroad, going to a wedding or funeral, maybe a cultural event such as a pilgrimage or a Lenten carnival then it should be agreed. To me going to Disney World seems wrong as a reason.

Fines are not the answer though. Holiday companies are not going to change prices and the state should not be interfering in what is not a necessity such as health care or food, though if school holidays were a bit more spread out, it might make a difference.

Cruel as it would seem to many, the most effective at primary level would be to allow unauthorised attendance to be a factor in deciding secondary school places. Parents are prepared to fake their faith for years to get a good school place, so i am sure that no holidays in term time would be a result.

I agree, children with excellent attendance records, should get a certain allocation of days. surely thats more incentive for the regular truants families too?

You'd think so, yes - but what happens with the child who's been off ill a lot - or truanted without the parent's knowledge - or who's been in school but is facing sanctions for poor behaviour - or any of countless other things?

As I've said, down the years genuinely exceptional cases have usually been honoured and still are, but problems arise when parents insist - sometimes against all common sense - that their case is somehow unique and not to be denied. Children aren't the only ones apt to cry "It's not faaaiiirrrrr!!!" and unfortunately it's largely the mass pisstaking which, rightly or wrongly, led to legislation

The holidays in the sun are not the only reason people need to travel in term time. My Dhs grandmother is very old, very unwell and lives in Australia, should I ask her to make sure she doesn't pass away until the end of July just so that we can go to her funeral? There needs to be more common sense when dealing with holidays

Parents are prepared to fake their faith for years to get a good school place, so i am sure that no holidays in term time would be a result

parents who make the effort to fake a faith to get their dc into a perceived good school , do you think they are the cause of child truants?

Surely parents who are prepared to go that far should be applauded for caring that much?

How does this affect poorely parented dc and those dc who have no engagement with the school?

A child has over 90% attendance, is an excellent student but was taken out a few tmes for a holiday! Sorry love, you cant get into senior now!