To move my young family to Brunei

[GirlOutNumbered]

I have been offered the chance to work in Brunei for a tax free wage, house included, free education at an International School for my children (both primary age)

Is it morally wrong to go to a country that has rules that I don't agree with and Sharia law to provide a strong education for my kids and probably secure my future financially.

I have been told that women are not oppressed and that many women in Brunei take the top jobs in the country. However, things like homosexuality are illegal and that really doesn't sit right with me, obviously.

You are already supporting the governments of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Nigeria, Angola etc every time you fill you car with petrol or use products of the oil industry such as plastics, polymers and coatings. Where does your support for governments whose policies you disagree with start and end?

I still write irritating (I hope) streams of letters, Oh, particularly on the subject of our special relationship with Saudi Arabia

And homosexuality is still illegal in 12 US states, I assume that would stop you visiting them too?

The US seems pretty keen on embracing Sharia itself, the way things are going. Re-labelled, so as not to make it seem un-American

The US seems pretty keen on embracing Sharia itself, the way things are going. Re-labelled, so as not to make it seem un-American hmm

Sure it is. I meet loads of people who want to stone adulterers to death and want to vote people into office who will give this legs. Ah yes, Sharia law alive and well in the US. Actually I haven't actually encountered it myself because we have, well a constitution, a democracy, a rule of law, a separation of states, and a functioning legal system that is based on our constitution.

But go right ahead and believe sharia law is being embraced or is about to be embraced in the US.

And those 12 states who you say have laws against homosexuality still on the books- they are all obliged to proved marriage licences to same sex couples.

Chopsticksandchillicrab, do you know anything about the International School of Brunei? Boys and girls study together, do PE together (even swimming) and go on (overnight) school trips together.

Op just be aware that Brunei is a dry country, although non Muslims can bring in a small amount of alcohol from other countries.

It's funny how most of the people who have never worked or lived overseas are the ones telling you not to go.... Get a balanced view, post on expat forums (there are lots) and see if you can get a recce trip before you go.

Some of the opinions on this thread are laughable. I live in Brunei so I think I am quite well placed to give an opinion.
People are not stoned.
Girls at international schools do not have to wear headscarves.
Children from international schools can mix socially together.
Women here are not oppressed.
My good friend is muslim yet wears jeans and boots, even in this hot climate.
I'm an expat yet live amongst locals so no 'expat bubbles here'
People employ Amahs and they generally get paid well and are treated well.
People say it's dull because its so hot all the time outdoor activities are limited.
There are lots of travel opportunities.
The locals are friendly and love children.
There are cinemas, bowling, shops, restaurants to visit. There are some areas of absolute beauty, and some areas of extreme poverty - the same in any country.
I had my youngest DC here, in a hospital with better facilities than the ones I have been in the UK.
Food is expensive as it's imported, but eating out is lovely and very reasonable.
There is a great waterpark and theme park that locals and expats all use - all at the same time (shock, horror)
There was a polo match held here a few weeks ago which again locals and expats all attended all together. Even the Sultan was there.
I drive here, I wear western clothes, I feel safer here than I do in the UK.
I see monkeys, monitor lizards and beautiful wildlife everyday.
I like living here.

OP if you want to work here then come and visit first. Then make your decision. people (including myself) can only give you their opinions. You need to know for yourself. At least my opinion is based on fact, and not google.

Places such as Dubai, I could never visit. I don't care if they treat expats well. If, as a woman, you're expected to stay in compound to be treated well, that's another word for a prison, no?!

Dubai isn't like that.

Canyouforgiveher, I was being sardonic.

I'm an expat in the US. You could say equally as bad things about the US but that doesn't stop there being a huge British population here. I would go for it, OP, particularly if you have diplomatic immunity.

I would. We've lived all over the world and there's no country where you'll agree with everything (incl. the UK).

• A better education for your children as it sounds like they wouldn't go to a public school in the UK. Besides simply the budgets of Intl. schools and excellent teachers they tend to employ, the mixing of cultures is wonderful.

• Financially. You can save a percentage of your salary you couldn't dream of in the UK.

• education for you and your family by opening your eyes to how big the world is, how others live and how other cultures operate. You don't have to like something to learn from it.

• IME, closer knit communities. Depending on the country there can be more or less 'mingling' between communities. Where we live at the moment, the local people are, on the whole, pretty derogatory towards foreigners but foreigners don't care too much. We accept it and enjoy the benefits of being here. The place before that was very 'ex-pat bubble' due to security. Previous to that, the people were wonderful and we made life-long friends with locals and ex-pats alike.

• It's an adventure that usually brings families even closer together.

• you'll be wonderfully located to explore so much of SE Asia.

• You'll miss home. Food. People. Places. Routines. Events.

• There'll be things that drive you crazy. Inefficiency. Traffic. Pollution. Perceived rudeness.

2 years is no time at all. The first 6 months feels like a holiday as your meeting people, exploring and settling. There's a reason that most ex-pats don't return home immediately, they move on to do it somewhere else.

You don't need diplomatic immunity. Just don't break the laws and learn to bite your tongue.

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*HidingUnderTheBed

It amazed me that western people would employ an amah to effectively raise their children. I never employed help and people thought I was very odd for the fact. I would never exploit another human being just because you could and had zero respect for anyone that did

Is it 'effectively raising their children' or is it more like personalised child care? Bring the nursery or creche to your own home.

We've had maids, nannies and drivers since our children were born. I work a lot from home and while less so now, travel for 3-4 days at a time all over the world. My husband's a headmaster. Having a nanny doesn't mean they raise your children, it means we can earn money to support our family while we're at work and our children, when not at school, play dates (hosting or attending) or whatever else, are in their own home with someone's undivided attention. Good for you for "not employing help". We need to work so need childcare as do many, many parents.

Are you chastising everyone who isn't a SAHP or only the ex-pats?

We've never exploited anyone. We've paid fair wages and they've become friends - like extended family in some cases. We're still in touch (Facebook, Skype) with most ex-employees. They were happy working for us and having a clean home, errands run, meals cooked etc means that when we're not working, family time is family time. I've never had to say to either son 'I can't play, I need to iron', 'I have to mop the floors', 'Your Daddy has to wash the dishes' or what have you. It also means that when DH and I have our Saturday evenings out together, we know the 'babysitter' is someone who our children know well and who knows everything about them.

I personally wouldn't, I think I'd have to self censor a lot of the time and not really feel safe.
I knew 3 Bruneian women who came over to the UK to study. 2 of them are Malaysian descent and the third is Chinese and had moved there as a child. The Chinese woman was quite critical of the country and said she found it a very racist country.

I haven't read the whole thread. I know several people who have lived there and really enjoyed it. (Teachers) I considered it myself for a while. My friends enjoyed it while their kids were young but moved when they began finding it boring. Great travel opportunities too. I presume you will be working for the oil company?

These threads always throw up so many comments from people who have never visited the places in question. OP listen to people who have actually lived there...and go for it!

I emigrated to the Middle East 9 years ago. It bears absolutely no resemblance to the way the MN armchair warriors describe it and it is the best thing I ever did.

I was there for 2 years. If it's working for Shell, I would go. But the Bastard monkeys drive you mad. Don't be surprised to find them rifling through the larder. That's all I have to add.

Don't any of you saying you'd go feel remotely guilty that your gay and lesbian friends could never take this opportunity for fear of imprisonment or death?

Imprisoment or death? Are you still talking about Brunei?! Did you feel guilty that up until recently your gay and lesbian friends couldn't get married in a church in the UK? Did you up and leave the country in protest?

No.

Sorry last night I was knackered and not that coherent. I meant I judged people who exploited their amah, in terms of paying them an appalling rate of pay and or making them work ridiculous amounts of time and just generally opted out of parenting and left the amah to it. I apologise if I offended. I just worried about children that then left and left their primary care giver behind. Not the people that employed and used them at a normal level and treated them equally and paid them well. :)

Hidingunderthebed you mean, like, all the people in the UK who pay a young foreign girl £90 per week as an au pair?

It is what it is.

Yes I would be equal in my judgment in that situation also. :)

The sultan of Brunei has not educated any of his children at any stage in his own country. All his children have been educated since nursery in the UK. International schools are variable and I would wonder just how good they are in Brunei if the sultans children do not attend.

I lived there 21 years ago, in fact my youngest DD was born there. We loved it and it is an excellent place to bring up a young family.The expat community is great and we made good friends for life. The wildlife and rainforests are amazing. If we won the lottery I would take my children back for a holiday.
the culture is what it is, like many expat postings you get used to it, If I was you I would go !

Don't any of you saying you'd go feel remotely guilty that your gay and lesbian friends could never take this opportunity for fear of imprisonment or death?

No. Why would I feel guilt?

How about guilt living in the UK as a Catholic can't be the Lord Chancellor or guilt living in the States where 42% actually believe in full-on creationism.

Lonecatwithkitten
The sultan of Brunei has not educated any of his children at any stage in his own country. All his children have been educated since nursery in the UK. International schools are variable and I would wonder just how good they are in Brunei if the sultans children do not attend.

Yes they are variable. Jerudong is very highly regarded.

www.jerudonginternationalschool.com/