To move my young family to Brunei

[GirlOutNumbered]

I have been offered the chance to work in Brunei for a tax free wage, house included, free education at an International School for my children (both primary age)

Is it morally wrong to go to a country that has rules that I don't agree with and Sharia law to provide a strong education for my kids and probably secure my future financially.

I have been told that women are not oppressed and that many women in Brunei take the top jobs in the country. However, things like homosexuality are illegal and that really doesn't sit right with me, obviously.

And homosexuality is illegal in Kenya, would that stop people going on safaris there?

I never met any local Bruneian person that seemed terrified or in anyway miserable about their country, the people that actually live there seem happy enough and were certainly not making any attempts to leave.. Unlike massive percentages of the rest of the world. I am sure in specific cases it would be hell if for example you were homosexual I don't think Brunei is alone in that though.

Um, nobody has been stoned to death in Brunei. It has been getting more conservative and the intention to implement Sharia law was announced in 2014. So far phase 1 is implemented (fines, jail) but phase 2 has been "delayed". There is doubt over whether it will happen. I totally disagree with their laws. But then I think our own government has done many totally unacceptable and unethical things. Am I going to leave the country? Maybe...

My sister moved there for a few years with her partner. We visited a few times. It is stunningly beautiful and very peaceful and tolerant. The people are friendly and tete at good opportunities. My sister never felt oppressed and would love to go back. It does get a bit boring there but she used to say it was a good place from which to travel to places liked Malaysia easily and quickly. Some of the onions on here are so far off the mark. Every society, including western societies, have flaws and human rights abuses. Look at the UK and US record of rendition and torture not to mention it's colonial past and history of poor treatment of indigenous populations. Experiencing different cultures and lifestyles is a great education. There will always be people and policies you won't age with wherever you live but don't write off a whole country and it's people because of the rules of the governors.

People who haven't kept up to speed on developments since 2014 could probably do with at least this quick read on the Sultan's Sharia implementation.

I actually know a couple of Bruneian women. Their government paid for them to come to the UK for university as they wanted to read medicine and Burnei didn't have a medical school. Women are not seen as second class.

Women are not seen as second class. Unless they leave their parents' home without formal permission and without a husband; except that they can be married to stranger with their father's agreement; unless they have a miscarriage or abortion; unless they have anal sex; unless they're gay; unless they're married to someone of a different faith (Phase 2, details still unclear). Oh, and as long as they don't 'dress like a man'.

Otherwise, it's great for women.

And unless they incite another woman to leave her husband for whatever reason. That's half of MN nicked, then!

Not certain but I don't think they teach a full spectrum in the international school. i.e. no acknowledgement for homosexuality, the girls may be (might have been rumour when I visited) having to wear headscarves.

I wouldn't live there I don't think, largely because of the benign dictatorship meaning that nothing seems to get done; the quasi islamisation and the hypocrisy. Do agree that it's a great base to travel from though.

throws hands up garlic you've never even been to the place. The Internet is great but researching a country, especially an Islamic one, will only tell you so much. Even more so when you are only reading articles written in English.

OP, go visit the country. Then decide. I promise you it's bears very little resemblance to some of the descriptions here. It's a pretty affluent country, the state provides a lot for its citizens and there is relatively little poverty.

This is an 'interesting' thread.

Christ MrsG we are not all going to make the DM tomorrow are we ;)

Only you can decide what you are happy with, it's down to your own moral compass rather than others. That said, you obviously care what others think of you or you wouldn't be asking so perhaps it's not for you or you'd make your own decision.

Running, I simply read a translation of some of the major points in the new laws.

Exactly as I read points of English laws when I want to know about them.

I'm not defending Shariah law Garlic. What I'm saying is life in Brunei is not like what is being portrayed here. It's a beautiful country, with some truly wonderful people. Only the OP can judge if her family will be happy there, and that decision I feel shouldn't be made without a visit at least.

And homosexuality is illegal in Kenya, would that stop people going on safaris there?

I've been stunned by the number of questions like this.

Perfectly obviously - yes, it would if the people were gay.

I've never been there but you'd be mad to turn down an opportunity to "secure your family's future".

I suppose it depends what your other prospects are like, but look at the most recent " how much savings do you have?" thread. Loads of people have sweet FA. Savings are hard to come by.

I did a short stint in Saudi, a country and culture for which I have absolutely fuck all respect, but came out of it financially secure (by 20's standards). No way should you turn this down.

Depends, I guess. how iportant would this be for your career? What would happen crontractually) if you decided to leave earlier?
If you have other options I'd say no, don't do it..

Mainly because of your family... Yes, you'd live in a happy expat bubble. But that doesn't mean the "outside world" can't penetrate this bubble. Just this year there was for example an international incident in Uganda, a Swiss Diplomat was accused of being gay. He also lived in a very privileged bubble, but still...

You can't predict whether the human rights situation in a country may impact you one day. What if one of your children ends up being gay, for example. How would this impact their self-esteem etc? Or if any of you makes an unfortunate experience.... What would your legal situation be? What exactly is the worst case scenario? Caning is for example mandatory for certain criminal offenses...

Unless I was filthy rich (or had diplomatic immunity) I wouldn't risk it.
And even then, what would you potentially expose your children to...? Women have been stoned for trying to get their rapist condemned!

I am an expat living in England, I've never been to Brunei and this is just my opinion.
(Btw, I hope this makes sense, I'm sootired and just started typing whatever came to mind. Sorry. Good night everybody!)

The Sharia general court is targeted to open by the end of June. This opens the way for Phase 2 - which includes amputations and thrashing - to be fully implemented by June 2017. The Sultan is reported (by local media, not only international watchdogs) to be very unhappy with the laxity of implementations so far, although he understands there are many details to be thrashed out by the court system. Phase 3 is expected to begin in 2018, a year later than planned but still within OP's tenure. This allows for the full force of medieval law, including death penalties for crimes that we'd consider minor or not crimes at all.

It will be perfectly possible for an expat to live relatively untouched by any of this ... but you do have to know. If for no better reason than that you might inadvertently bring down the wrath of Allah on someone in your vicinity. And, of course, to ensure that neither you nor your children fall foul of it.

But if this is something your family needs then yes, you should do it (imo).

Sure, ethically speaking it's a bit shitty... But your family comes first.
Just invest in some legal counsel.

OP I wouldn't go
I just don't want to put more into that "westerners love it here in spite of Sharia" thing. Friend of mine worked there for three years. He couldn't understand why I wouldn't visit. My mum comes from a country where women are treated badly, I've never been either.

I'd not visit a country where homosexuality was illegal, I'm not gay. I certainly won't visit a country where abortion is illegal.

although someone pointed out that it was my westernisation (is that a word!?) that made me scared

What does that mean? That by being Western you're used to being a person in your own right and you're reluctant to give that up?
I couldn't live like that. Men and women are equal, and any country that tried to say otherwise I wouldn't be visiting anytime soon.

Yes OP expats would have a good standard of life in a bubble. I honestly wouldn't bring my kids up in a country where people are stoned for adultery

That's exactly how I see it. Admittedly, I don't know much about the country of Brunei so apologies if this doesn't ring true what I'm about to say.
Places such as Dubai, I could never visit. I don't care if they treat expats well. If, as a woman, you're expected to stay in compound to be treated well, that's another word for a prison, no?!
They can have their beliefs. I'll hold strong to mine. All equal. All people.

School life would be slightly different for your children as even in the international schools boys and girls are not allowed to socialise together. There are no school discos or year group parties or proms in Brunei.

Abortion was illegal in the country where I lived. Contraception was 'grey' - you could buy condoms in supermarkets although this was illegal, but local women had to go through layers of bureaucracy to get the Pill (I just waved my passport at the pharmacist.) You could get the MAP by finding a sympathetic pharmacist or doctor who'd prescribe for your father with prostate disease! Sexual exploitation was rife, as were other exploitative crimes.

What I did about it was help local women and children in meaningful ways and, when I got back here, raised a lot of funds and awareness for projects that I knew for certain were helping. I even backstabbed the international women's charity I'd aligned my fundraising with, as I found out they were going to divert the funds. I also petitioned the Pope to reconsider his advisories - which he did, though probably not on the basis of letters from an English atheist.

I'd be painfully uncomfortable in an environment where it was unsafe to discuss worrying issues, dangerous to intervene and where people couldn't even accept support without risking severe punishment.

I would still, though, take the job if it was going to improve my career & financial prospects in a way that no more palatable offer could. I'd view it as two years in a parallel universe, and write copious diaries to help me deal with the self-censorship.