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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To move my young family to Brunei

150 replies

GirlOutNumbered · 12/05/2016 21:45

I have been offered the chance to work in Brunei for a tax free wage, house included, free education at an International School for my children (both primary age)

Is it morally wrong to go to a country that has rules that I don't agree with and Sharia law to provide a strong education for my kids and probably secure my future financially.

I have been told that women are not oppressed and that many women in Brunei take the top jobs in the country. However, things like homosexuality are illegal and that really doesn't sit right with me, obviously.

OP posts:
Fanakapan · 12/05/2016 22:44

All males.

All makes of males!Smile

lougle · 12/05/2016 22:52

Hmm....my parents took us out there for two years in the early 1980s in Panaga. My sister was born there. They always speak of it fondly.

Original poster
GirlOutNumbered · 12/05/2016 22:54

Do any of you have proof of the things you are saying?

The boss at the workplace said that it's no where near that level. They are peaceful and the infrastructure is not in place for stage 2 and 3 sharia.

Although, I guess the fact that they have little freedom should bother me... The guy I spoke to said he wouldn't come home to the UK and would never bring his kids up here.

OP posts:
Original poster
GirlOutNumbered · 12/05/2016 22:55

Why couldn't the job be somewhere simple... but then I guess it wouldn't be such a great package.

OP posts:
achildsjoy · 12/05/2016 22:58

I would go.

inlovewithhubby · 12/05/2016 22:58

Do we have proof? Do you have google?!

Dozer · 12/05/2016 22:59

It's not up to MNetters to "prove" things: read up on it for yourself!

Your boss is hardly unbiased.

inlovewithhubby · 12/05/2016 23:01

It's a great package because the company offering it to you realises it needs to incentivise people to hand over their rights to liberty, democracy, equality and bribe them to not give a shit about the indigenous population who don't have a choice about living there.

hidingunderthebed · 12/05/2016 23:02

We lived in Brunei for over three years, Army so no choice in the matter. We returned to the UK in 2011 but have many friends out there still. What is being described on this thread shares no resemblance to the life we experienced out there. I as a woman never felt repressed or a inferior in any way. I went out alone or with my children uncovered in western clothing all the time without a second thought. I never ever in all of my time there received one negative or aggressive comments. It is a very mixed society with a high proportion of Chinese immigrants who also do not follow Islam in any way. I found all nationalities lived together peacefully and there was a huge element of live and let live.

We had Bruneian friends who we socialised with regularly and certainly did not live within the expat bubble. I am struggling to recognise the country we lived in and were very sad to leave with some of the opinions on this thread. I wonder how many people have actually been there.

inlovewithhubby · 12/05/2016 23:07

Never been there. But I can read. Do you know how many people were stoned to death while you were there? Give us your dates and we can find out. That should inform the op about how many will likely die when she's there, also turning a blind eye.

icy121 · 12/05/2016 23:08

I'd go. Follow the money for a couple of years. International school for your kids will be fine and you'll all experience something different and broaden your horizons & experiences. It's illegal to be gay in the Maldives, would that stop you taking a dream holiday there?!

CoolCarrie · 12/05/2016 23:10

Go for it ! It is only two years and you should do what is best for your family. Read what hidingunderthebed says!
! At least she knows of which she speaks...!

inlovewithhubby · 12/05/2016 23:11

I'm astonished by people being so willing to accept the draw of the dollar. Icy121 - yes, that law would stop me visiting the Maldives.

hidingunderthebed · 12/05/2016 23:13

No cash incentive for us, though some of the Shell workers were on popstars wages.

Runningwithacheesegrater · 12/05/2016 23:14

I agree with hiding. I've been to Brunei and the comments on this thread actually show a high level of ignorance of what Brunei is like. It is actually a very tolerant and peaceful country. It's like listening to Trump talking about London.

Your biggest challenge would be boredom as it is a very small country with not much happening in terms of arts or entertainment. And limited availability of goods as everything needs to be imported in pretty much.

GarlicShake · 12/05/2016 23:15

It's difficult to evaluate ex-pat life by any normal standards. In my opinion, more ex-pats should try. But they don't, hence you get all the "Oh, it's lovely. Boring, but marvellously safe and the package makes life so easy!" I'm among those who find this despicable, but then I was a 'weird' ex-pat who got involved in local life outside the rich bubble. Most wear gold-plated blinkers. They know they're doing it, but quality of life doesn't mean the same to them as it does to me.

It's two years. The education for your kids will be good. You'll be protected and you'll make money. In your shoes, I'd probably do it ... with something of a heavy heart, but I'd buy my designer blinkers and do it.

I don't think it's a situation where you can reasonably get involved in local life. When you're off work, you'll be more of a pampered tourist. There are many amazing, incredible, beautiful and soul-stirring places to visit (I haven't been; many friends have.)

You will have to learn to button your lip.

Dapplegrey1 · 12/05/2016 23:16

"yes, that law would stop me visiting the Maldives."

Cuba has a poor human rights record. Would you visit there?

GarlicShake · 12/05/2016 23:20

Hiding - by 'local' life I meant street level. There are places where it's near impossible as a 'western' woman to do that. I may be wrong, but my understanding is Brunei would be one of them.

hidingunderthebed · 12/05/2016 23:22

Thank you running I feel like I have slipped behind the looking glass. Yes we found it very tolerant. Massive celebrations for Chinese new year, lion dances in the streets.

When the Muslims were observing Ramadan all things were open as usual for everyone else. I agree that there is not much to do, but some amazing jungle in Temburong and the availability to travel widely and cheaply through Asia. Make sure you join Panaga all social things revolve around it.

It is expensive to buy food as everything is imported, but eating out is cheap as chips if you eat as the locals do at the excellent markets and the many Chinese and Malay eateries.

Step outside of the expat bubble the Bruneian people are some of the most friendly people I have ever met.

DancingHippo · 12/05/2016 23:24

I have visited Brunei many times as relatives lived out there a few years ago.

It was very child friendly. The locals love DC and you will often see them taken out to dinner or the mall in their pyjamas ready to go straight to bed. Very hot but air con is standard and lots of outdoor swimming pools available.

Women drive over there. Some wore hijabs, some not. I did not see any noticeable subjugation of local women. In fact, they seemed to rule the roost in the families I got to know. It is very peaceful and the locals were very friendly and hospitable. Amazing food markets but very BIG cockroaches and cute little lizards that would make themselves at home on the ceilings.

What I found upsetting though was that there were a lot of workers who came over from the Philippines, of their own choice obviously. They lived in dormatories separated by sex, so husbands/wives could not live together, having left their DC back home in the care of grandparents. They were also used as 'amahs' (maids) and there some instances of them being very badly abused by their employers. They were definitely thought of lower class to the Bruneian's with little rights or protection. Not sure if that's changed now.

My relative had a wonderful amah. She even ironed their underwear and would clean the house from top to bottom daily for a pittance even though they paid her well over the normal rate.

Different world and all that.

I would go. As a PP said whether you go or not will not change the Human Rights legislation and you will be securing your family a better future.

Avoid the Durian fruit though!

MyFriendsCallMeOh · 12/05/2016 23:24

I would go, I know several families who have lived there and had a great time exploring Asia. I live in Texas, I'm not keen on gun laws and capital punishment but we have a very good lifestyle here, same when I lived in Singapore and wasn't keen on their laws about public assembly and censorship, same in Azerbaijan where I had to turn a blind eye to massive corruption, same in uk where I actively dislike the drinking culture and violence in large towns when the pubs shut....

Nowhere is perfect, if you can afford to turn down a good wage and job for your principles, you are luckier than me.....

austenozzy · 12/05/2016 23:29

"yes, that law would stop me visiting the Maldives."

Abortion is illegal in Ireland; would that stop you visiting there?

hidingunderthebed · 12/05/2016 23:30

I agree about the Phillippine workers and they were badly exploited. It amazed me that western people would employ an amah to effectively raise their children. I never employed help and people thought I was very odd for the fact. I would never exploit another human being just because you could and had zero respect for anyone that did.

Dozer · 12/05/2016 23:32

Wow, so because western expats can't see any nasty goings on in their bubble and get paid well and can shop when they like all's fine and dandy. Nice.

CoolCarrie · 12/05/2016 23:34

Excellent post MyFriendsCallMeOh!