How do you decide between private school or state school?

[Hecegoza]

I'm so torn... There's a lovely prep school, relatively close (15 min drive) and it only has 123 students - from age 1-11. I'd want mine to start at Pre-Reception.

It's very family-like and has great pastoral care (which I think is more important than results, for sure).

It's reasonable price - it's £21 a morning session for Pre-Reception and then £2,900 each term up to Year 6. That includes lunch/swimming, etc.

Then there's an 'Outstanding' state school which is walking distance, it's a lovely newly built building. Then friends he met at school would most likely be in his village too... So that's a bonus, and most likely to go to the same secondary.

I'm struggling to decide if your kids go private, why is that? If state, why did you pick that? I feel they both have good benefits!

Those who get the most need it the least.

How would you know that? Do you know every single background of a child who has a lot? I don't get why people are offended that some children get that chance to go to a private school or are offended that their parents can pay for it, after all, they have earned their money to send them... Or someone in their family has earned the money.

I don't get why people hate people who choose private!

Mini if you actually read my first post on this thread you will know that I said 'if funds or a scholarship place allow' then private schools can be considered too.

You are being obtuse. Why?

And your generalisation is, again, ridiculous.

My child who is at private school is a young carer and has mental health needs. She needs everything that environment can give her.

If you are going to have to make any sort of sacrifice to send DCs to private school then you have to consider that that sacrifice will be amplified many times over across the 6/11/13 years the DC are being privately educated. The rate of inflation for school fees has typically been above RPI.

While it is one thing to think that you will be happy to drive around in an old car, what will happen when that car needs replacing/expensive repairs in the same month the school fees need paying?

"I don't get why people hate people who choose private!"

We don't, I think we dislike the attitudes that have been shown on here from both sides has had some sneery comments from some posters.

The attitude towards state school (earlier there was a comment about uncouth boys, repeated calls of children being lost etc).

Each to their own, but I for hate the insinuation that private school children are somehow more special or talented than others, which has been implied on here regularly.

Even when someone suggested earlier on that great A level grades from a private school weren't an indication of ability, or when the Sutton Trust finds that students from state schools with the same grades out perform the privately educated you get comments back saying it can't possibly be true.

I think more than anything else I'd like people to admit that in most cases you are smoothing your child's path, buying them priviliges and advantages not open to those who don't have the cash, rather then portraying it as an on merit thing.

My sons fees are £7k per term I didn't think their were private schools at £2900 per term well at least not in London.

lurked 101:
Agreed that there is an element of "smoothing the child's path"; but I don't agree with some of the stereotyping on this thread, from both sides. Some of the fee-paying parents are coming across as breathtakingly arrogant/superior 😡; whereas some of those opposed to private schools are being deliberately provocative.
Thanks Istandinpause .

Love probably not in London, but in other parts there are lots!

LoveFromUs :
You sound very insular if I may respectfully say so. There is life outside London..
My children's prep fees were £8K PA, which is the going rate for this part of the country.

Thanks Antanddec,

I think some of the state posting can be a bit sneery too.

As previously stated I don't mind others choosing private school or whatever you think is best for your child. I really don't like however the insinuations of many of the private school mums here though.

Although I did feel incredibly vindicated last week when a former uni friend raved about how well her children did at private school and that she couldn't believe that I'd send mine to a comp.

I grited my teeth pointed out the DS is an Oxford grad, and DD is at one of the top 5 in the country so hadn't done too badly and left it at that . Would have loved to have added that neither of hers are at Russell Groups ( Oh and I desperately wanted to point out that for all her airs and graces I could buy her lock stock and barrell, but didn't).

I know two different people who've been taken aside by their children's very expensive London prep schools and told they'll have to employ an outside maths tutor or little Johnny might lose his place. Both were rather taken aback to find that the 7 grand a term didn't cover actual maths teaching.
Another mum I know sent her eldest daughter to a famously academic girls' day school after missing out on a state primary school place. She said almost every girl was being tutored outside school and moved house so her DD and younger DS would get into our local secondary.

I know, it was unguarded over wine though, I think sometimes things just come out, sometimes people say what they have really thought for a long time. Both her and her husband were privately educated so it came naturally to them to do so, as they had the money too. I don't begrudge them it, she knows nothing of the state system apart from watching Grange Hill as a child/teen.

I was quite unhappy at the particular state school I attended as I got older because I felt the odd one out academically, which is why I persuaded my parents to let me sit scholarship exams to a private school. I may have done as well in the state sector at GCSEs / A levels, but I have no doubt that the tiny class sizes and amount of insider knowledge from my teachers gave me a big advantage when applying for university. I think it is really important that people who went to good private schools acknowledge the advantage it gives, and try very hard to see that the "polish" can often mask somebody who would otherwise be average at best. I think those people are usually caught out in their careers at some point to be honest.

I would send my children to state schools if I possibly could. I think they are the best choice socially and I have a problem with a segregated system that gives very few people a very big unfair advantage. However, the most important thing as a parent is that your child is happy. The other problem that I have encountered is the lottery of state school admissions, especially in London, where as an atheist I am left with fairly uninspiring choices because the middle classes (looking at you in particular Tony Blair and David Cameron) colonise a few faith schools and leave others to sink. But the percentage who attend private schools in London is very high comparatively too, which also causes a problem.

If I were the OP I would definitely choose the good state school for now, safe in the knowledge that if it doesn't work out there is enough financial security for a backup option.

I haven't seen any posters saying or implying that kids at private schools are better, nicer or more talented

I know lots of children locally who have gone private for primary then transferred to a state secondary with no problems. It's not a given that you will be bullied or stick out like a sore thumb, it all depends on the school.

The fees at secondary level increase exponentially, which rules it out for many. It doesn't make a prep education a waste of money though.

Money lol.

I transferred back to state at secondary. Be very wary. Extra ground was lost, peer group was lost, confidence lost.

minifingerz posted this about me yesterday.

Yes - in metaphorical terms you have given them a massive pair of hobnail boots which they can wear to trample over the backs of poorer children

I shouldn't worry mini. According to this thread those boots were over priced and trample-lite.

My DC it seems are receiving a worse education. Their grades ignored, their CVs binned. They are likely to drop out of university and fail in work.

So all's well that ends well .

haven't seen any posters saying or implying that kids at private schools are better, nicer or more talented

Me neither although many people have referred to such posts. I think private school parent posts have lately been balanced and non judgemental and if anyone would like to find me some quotes about people saying their children are better or cleverer then please do as I've not found any.
I have found posts which are unpleasant about private school kids/ families though.
I think the unpleasantness is certainly going one way more than the other. People are making generalisations and forcing private school posters to have to defend themselves which is actually really unfairThat is definitely the way round it's happening mainly on this thread I think.

I think that might be a case of you see what you want. There has been lots of stuff that you might not notice but can seem like a passive aggressive dig. Lots of implications that you can't do xyz or that standards in states are poor.

I'm not the only one who noticed it.

lurked regarding the evidence that supposedly shows state school students out perform private school students at university, I was not trying to say that private schooled pupils are brighter.

I was simply trying to point out that the 'evidence' does not paint the picture often cited. It certainly does not show that state schools are doing well with their high ability children, nor does it show that private schools are full of unintelligent children who have paid for their grades.

As much as people would like it to prove that, it ain't so.

It tells us that on the HE courses that require 3Bs or less (so the least selective courses) state schooled pupils gain better classifications of degrees as a trend. This is exactly as you would expect, no?

If a student attended a selective school, so has the requisite raw brain power, and had excellent teaching (through paying fees) and yet still ended up on one of those courses, we can make certain assumptions about their likely aptitude and work rate and organisation skills (illness, personal reasons excluded for various reasons).

Whereas, these lower tariff courses will attract state schooled pupils who could easily have coped with a more selective course. The reasons for this include; choosing/needing to remain at home while studying, attraction to more vocational courses, low aspiration etc.

The difference in UG classification lessens profoundly as the courses become more selective and is negligible at the most selective. Again this is exactly as you would expect.

I teach at Oxford. My course is popular and highly selective. We do not see state schooled pupils outperforming their privately educated peers (and we analyse the data to within an inch of its life, trust me). Nor do we find them better prepared.

lurked I understand that the view that standards are poor in the state sector hurts parents whose children are in it and they seek to refute it.

However, there can be no argument that standards in some state schools are poor. Provision is incredibly patchy in the UK and academisation, government policy on exams, reduction of public spending is only going to worsen things.

The reduction of money for sixth forms is shocking and is going to have a profound effect on higher education. Of course the government would like parents to deny this or point their fingers at the private sector and their boots or make demands that universities make even more allowances.

But these are all distractions.

Strange that someone from Oxford would misunderstand the data. Which states that 69 % of students from independent schools with ABb get a 2:1 whilst 79% of students from state schools with the same grades do. See, out performing.

Nice that you talk about less selective course and lack of aspiration when regarding state school students too. When obviously neither is true from the above.

I doubt at Oxford with its interview process you do find that private or state school students are hat different. If you really are at Oxford seeing as you completely fudged the data from hat report to suit a set of prejudices

I think that might be a case of you see what you want. There has been lots of stuff that you might not notice but can seem like a passive aggressive dig. Lots of implications that you can't do xyz or that standards in states are poor.

Perhaps but I'd argue the passive aggressive comments towards privately educated people far outweigh these and as I've already said, private school parents often feel they need to justify themselves. I've felt forced into being defensive at times and then acknowledge I can be interpreted as passive aggressive- if people just leave my choices alone and mind their own business then as far as I'm concerned my kids' school is not issue and none of anyone's business!

If the only sacrifice you need to make is to give up on the third exotic holiday of the year so that DCs can attend a lovely fee paying school with beautiful grounds and facilities then I see no problem.

If on the other hand you are sacrificing the family's comfort and peace of mind so that DCs can go to a down at heel school with damp on the walls and crumbling facilities just for the cachet of saying your DCs are at private school then you need to rethink.

Of course there are lots of shades between these two extremes.

The thing to aim for is best fit for your DCs and also family finances. A school is not automatically better simply because it is fee paying.