To expect Mum to pay up after 4YO child scratched every panel on our car

[LupoLoopy]

Context: My wife works at a nursery school as an assistant.. Her car was parked in the staff car park, which the kids egress though when they leave, under parental supervision.

During lunch time pick-up, one of the departing 4 year old's took a rock and scratched every panel and light fixture on her car, all whilst his Mum was standing within 6M of the car, chatting to a friend.

The incident was captured on CCTV.

The cost of a proper repair is so close to the value of the car, I fear it being written off, which is something we could afford but would hurt us a lot financially.

Although the damage is only cosmetic, the car was pristine before the incident (I'm a fussy sod who takes good care of his stuff) and I don't see why we should tolerate driving a 'shed' around 'for the children'.

We're trying to seek restitution from the School's insurance (if it will cover it) but to cover our butts, we've reported the incident to the police (so and official record exists) and reported it to our insurer.

If we have to use our car insurance AND we're fortunate enough to not have the car written off, it's going to tank my partners insurance premiums.

Frankly, I want to encourage the police to be fully involved and start proceedings immediately for civil action via the small claims court. I just dont think I can have confidence that Mum is going to be wired in the same way I am - i.e. it's her liability and don't see why we should be financially crippled by her parental inattention.

AIBU?

I had a bill in the region of £1k when someone bashed my door with their shopping as it was in the pillar and couldn't be bashed out. I made them pay. I don't see why I should have to suck up other people's carelessness and neither should the OP. Car insurance premiums rocket when you don't have no claims, and even having a non fault claim usually puts it up a bit too even though it shouldn't. The fact it was a child is also irrelevant as I'd be going after the mother. If she'd noticed after the first stone bash she'd probably have a couple of hundred quid to pay and could have been profusely apologetic and all would have been quick and easy. Instead she was negligent.

shiny isn't right, according to the citizens advice website which says' "A parent can be held liable for their child’s negligence if the parent failed to take reasonable care to see that the child did not cause harm to others."

I'd be approaching the parent. I don't think it's the nursery's responsibility, most will insist you park your car in their car park at your own risk. This covers them unless they have been negligent. Unless they handed the child a rock and said "go an scratch some cars" It isn't anything to do with them.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to pay, but I guess this is why insurers offer protection for no claims. And some waive the excess if it wasn't your fault. I was in a hit and run where a van jumped the lights and crashed in to me. I lost some no claims and had to pay an excess, I wasn't happy but it makes me thing twice about not protecting my bonus when re-insuring.

Its not a write off if it still drives Why do people post on subjects that they clearly have no idea about?

Are there signs up in the car park saying that people park there at their own risk and that the school is not responsible for any damage sustained? If there are, then you might struggle to get the school's insurance company to pay.

Also to add, the police might not be able to prosecute but they can go round and have a chat with the parents about the behaviour. It is in their interest to catch these situations early on as any child given carte blanche to do this sort of thing with parents not batting an eyelid, is far more to show up on their radar when they are older. Part of their crime prevention strategy is to work with parents like these.

Must admit I'd also be intrigued to see the damage - I mean how long did she leave him just wandering around?? Does make your blood go cold a bit to think what he might have done instead (no consolation to you OP :( ). The mother is bloody lucky this wasn't absolute tragic

YANBU and I hope that they do cough up. Are the panels really going to need replacing though, or will the damage t-cut out? I do know that car repair places charge an inordinate (to my mind) amount of money to repair scratched panels -been there with having the car written off as well, thanks to a Jewson bastard delivery dropping breeze blocks down the side of my car - even better, I had to pay the excess because I wasn't driving my car at the time. Apparently it costs MORE if your car is stationery on your property at the time of damage than if you're on the road driving it, how does that make sense?!

Anyway, car was written off, we paid the scrap value, kept the car, t-cut the scratches and didn't get the repair done. That might be an option for you.

What an awful situation. I'd be fuming.

I'd ask the mum to pay.

What about small claims court?

I'm fascinated by this.

Please post back when you've had a response from the mother OP.

@elephantpig - Not happy to put pictures up as I want to keep this anonymous as possible.

The scratches are hairline. A single scratch (at least) through every panel. I suspect I could polish out maybe 50% of them to reduce (but not eliminate) the damage?

Imagine what you might see if you drove too close to a harsh bush/branch?

Here's the 'rub' (har-de-har) - the remaining scratches are deep enough to demand panel sprays. The colour is a total pig to match, so when you start respraying that much of the car, you'll never blend it without doing overspray onto the other panels, at which stage a full respray could be effectively less work or necessary to not make the job a pig's ear.

It's a terrible thing to have happened to your car and of course she should have been watching her child, but what if, even with the best will on the world, she just can't afford to pay up? I certainly couldn't afford it and I don't know many people who could if house or car insurance can't cover it. I'd probably end up in ccj territory, with all the financial baggage that entails. I really hope she's in a better financial position than me, it's got me in a metaphorical cold sweat just thinking about it!

The mother's financial situation is pretty much irrelevant, Tormund . She's not being asked for a charitable donation.

Id ask the mum. Cant believe she didnt notice what her child was doing. For those questioning write off if the cost of cosmatic repair is more than the cost of the car the insurance company write it off. I could be perfect apart from a dent. I had to fight to save my car recently when someone drove into a door at slow speed. I refused write off and bought another door and it it sorted.

Thought this link may help - www.inbrief.co.uk/child-law/child-accidents-compensation-liability.htm

May be possible to take action against the adult as they were escorting them at the time.

Not sure how sound this advice is - but seems like it would be worth getting legal advice

I'm just musing about the fact that if I was asked to pay 4-8k then it just wouldn't be possible. Many people would be in the same situation, hence why we have insurance. But you can't insure a 4 year old.

Just to add: even if the insurance company write off the car because it is too uneconomical to repair it, and pay you the write-off value of the car, if you pay the scrap value of the car and keep it, they WILL insure it again for you. Or at least my insurance company did.

It's an odd system.

No. But you can watch them as they're gallivanting around a car park, ensuring that they don't deface other people's property. If he'd been run over while she was standing there gossiping that probably would have been the other guy's fault as well, not hers.

@Clam - you're categorically wrong. Sorry, but you are.

www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/what-is-an-insurance-write-off

Cat D is what it would likely land under. Could even land under Cat C.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad - That is an option indeed. One that rankles me hugely as we work hard to care for our stuff, but we may end up having to land on said option, push come to shove.

@TormundGiantsbabe - If she cant afford to pay, I guess we're stuffed, is the bottom line. Would I want to saddle someone with a life long debt to cover my repair costs? I'm not doing cartwheels at that prospect, but the other part of my brain thinks:

"No-ones ever given me a 'free pass' when I've screwed up, resulting in car damage.

Should we financially struggle so she doesn't 'get stressed'?"

No no, Clam isn't wrong, that's a quote from InSancerre's post that Clam is disputing.

Oh - Sorry @Clam :) I was responding in that fashion as it's come up a few times and it's balony

The mother should be able to claim under her house insurance legal liability, it is under the contents part. I did that when my dd scratched a car with her bike, she was 5 at the time

On the bright side you're not totally stuffed as you have insurance. It's inconvenient and a pain to lose a no claims bonus, but it's what insurance is for. Hope it gets sorted for you.

P.S. Also - no signs up saying 'you park here at your own risk', thank Heavens.

It has sparked a conversation with my wife about whether we can afford for her to work there any more. She already pays fortunes in petrol vs her earnings to get to this 'largely labour of love'. Working for cheap because you love your vocation is one thing. Working for a loss?

Sorry. Just venting :)

School insurance are VERY unlikely to cover it. Somewhere in the staff handbook (if not on an actual sign in the car park) will state that you park at your own risk.

I had the same thing happen to me.. my car, parked in our school car park where I work , I came out to find a gouge along the entire length of the car from front light to rear...right down to the metal. However children are not anywhere near and it can only have been done by another staff member...it happened to be the exact height of the metal trolleys that some teachers use to lug stuff from and to their cars. No one owned up :(

In the end I had it done at my own cost. However as yours was witnesses in your case I would most definitely claim against the parent!

The mother's financial situation is very relevant! She could be liable but if she doesn't have a few thousand that she can get her hands on, she's not going to be able to pay. If she has limited means she could end up having to pay £10 a week for the next decade. That's not going to help you very much with getting it fixed.
I assume you would have to make a small claims court claim.