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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To feel totally ignorant about racism

347 replies

IcingandSlicing · 02/05/2016 09:24

In that topic the other day I've learned that I am totally ignorant about racism. I had no idea that comments about hair for example that could be totally not ill meant could strike such a deep chord among other people
Or is it the comment itself or the way it was made - by the tone of voice etc nonverbal information you get from people - that makes it racist?
Or just some comments people make regarding kids like cheeky monkey for epinstance (there are tees with this) could be seen as racist?
I'm at a lost to be honest.
I've probably offended many people without even knowing about it.
I'd assume that in 2016 people would feel equal no matter how they look and not take offense from random comments.
Aibu to think that I'd better keep away from black people in case I'd say something that would offend them? (I mean I can say whatever negative thing I want about blond haired people, red haired people, black haired people, people who colour their hair, people who don't colour their hair, people who have thin hair, people who have thick hair, etc, but I feel like with black people it's likely to strike a deeper chord than ever intended and I am ignorant enough not to understand the history behid that makes it worse.)
And sorry about that I really don't mean to offend. Just to understand. Flowers

OP posts:
Catvsworld · 03/05/2016 20:59

poster Alisvolatpropiis

I have to endure this all though my dating days also your pretty for a dark girl
Or you be so beautiful if you were lighter

I also had to endure tourists men who never dated a balck woman didn't want anything long term just wanted to "see what it would be like" Confused

BeverlyGoldberg · 03/05/2016 21:00

I'm not being funny I'm just being honest. If I call my child a cheeky monkey as a term of endearment I wouldn't expect anyone to be offended because I'm not using it in an offensive way.

Catvsworld · 03/05/2016 21:00

Add message | Report | Message poster FluffyPineapple Tue 03-May-16 20:58:32

Agreed

I sometimes call mine a cheeky monkey not often but the cogs do go round a bit after I have to admit

Kasalina24 · 03/05/2016 21:07

They keep commenting on his eyes blah blah!

[image removed by MNHQ]

SenecaFalls · 03/05/2016 21:12

All kids can be considered to be Cheeky Monkeys - no matter what their race

A word of advice: don't call a black child in the US any kind of monkey, cheeky or otherwise.

Alisvolatpropiis · 03/05/2016 21:20

Catvsworld

That's horrible. You're not pretty (or clever, kind etc) "for a black girl", you just are those things. Cunts.

Did they expect you to be flattered?! It's an appalling thing to say.

Kasalina24 · 03/05/2016 21:32

If you call my child a cheeky monkey, I'll show you what for. NOT KIDDING Angry

witsender · 03/05/2016 21:48

What a beautiful child Kasalina.

BeverlyGoldberg · 03/05/2016 21:53

That's lovely Kasalina!

I've never said anything offensive, it's a term of endearment, nothing sinister or racist whatsoever.

I also call her a little bear, does that earn me a threat too?

FluffyPineapple · 03/05/2016 22:08

I don't think, in and of itself, cheeky monkey is racist Beverly. However as a white person, I wouldn't use it in reference to a child with brown skin (whether they're black, Asian, mixed) because it just feels like it could be received badly, understandably so.

My children have dual heritage. I call them cheeky monkeys and wouldn't have a problem with others calling them cheeky monkeys. Its a term of endearment. What makes you think I would deem it to be racist?

BertrandRussell · 03/05/2016 22:09

It's another "it's political correctness gorn maaaad" thing, isn't it? "I will defend to the death my right to say/do [insert usually massively outdated phrase/activity that hasn't been in common use since 1918] and none of you loony lefties is going to stop me"

It is possible that using the term "cheeky monkey" (which I don't think I have ever heard in RL anyway) might be upsetting to some people. So don't say it. You might not have realised that it might upset some people, but you do now. So don't say it any more. It's really not hard!

FluffyPineapple · 03/05/2016 22:13

A word of advice: don't call a black child in the US any kind of monkey, cheeky or otherwise.

Seneca. I'm in the UK. thank Goodness for that if this is the opinion of our US "friends"

Alisvolatpropiis · 03/05/2016 22:16

I don't necessarily think that you would think I was being racist. However I'm well aware that "monkey" has been used as a racial slur and could upset people.

As it goes I don't refer to anyone as a cheeky monkey, my own child or anyone else's, it just isn't a phrase I use.

drspouse · 03/05/2016 22:18

The other one we get is "oh but your DC isn't that dark". I don't know if other parents of mixed race DC get this. It's like it's a blessing and it would be awful to be darker.
(Our DC is about the same skin tone as a friend's DC the same age who has one white and one black parent, as I say we aren't entirely sure of our DC's ancestry but it's clearly not just white).

FluffyPineapple · 03/05/2016 22:22

Alis Monkey could be seen as a racist slur - if the term "Monkey" was used in a negative way. Most people wouldn't use the term "Cheeky monkey" as anything but a term of endearment - exactly as it should be received.

BertrandRussell · 03/05/2016 22:34

"Alis Monkey could be seen as a racist slur - if the term "Monkey" was used in a negative way. Most people wouldn't use the term "Cheeky monkey" as anything but a term of endearment - exactly as it should be received."

But some people do. Have you never heard football crowds making monkey noises? So why not just stop saying it? There are loads of other terms of endearment- I have never used the expression in my life but still find lots of affectionate names for children, both mine and other people's.

Ham69 · 03/05/2016 23:03

Drspouse It's scary how ignorant people can be. My 2 DC have bright red hair and I've had people say to me, "They're not that bright red, more strawberry blonde", like it's a huge compliment! I would love to turn around and say, "You're not that much of a twat for a complete f*wit!" Grin

StuckMelia · 03/05/2016 23:07

Just be careful with your response to avoid hurting others. :)

gingergenie · 03/05/2016 23:38

Kasalina your kid IS gorgeous and DOES have lovely eyes. It's one of my favourite combinations because it is stunningly beautiful. I also happen to think red hair, freckles and brown eyes is stunning. I'm ginger with green eyes. Neither or the statements I have made is a slur on someone's ethnicity. It is simply an appreciation of my interpretation of beauty.

Dawndonnaagain · 04/05/2016 06:46

Is that in the same way Golliwogs are cute, Fluffy? Hmm

Baboooshka · 04/05/2016 09:20

Most people wouldn't use the term "Cheeky monkey" as anything but a term of endearment - exactly as it should be received.

I feel like this is a recurring sentiment on this thread: telling people how they should interpret something, and that it's entirely their fault for being offended.

Being inadvertantly offensive or intrusive is one thing.

Continuing to be so, ignoring all context and dismissing anyone's explanations as to why it's irritating to get the same comments/questions over and over, or how a word like 'monkey' has historically been used (and continues to be used: see football chanting, anti-Obama rallies, etc) as an insult towards certain groups... it's your choice.

But there seems to be so much petulance and mock-outrage (throughout the thread not meaning to aim all this at Fluffy) at being asked to consider or modify, even for a second, your own language and behaviour. And all the hyperbole: 'so I should just CENSURE myself', 'so I just shouldn't speak to ANY black people', 'so I can't even call MY OWN CHILDREN a monkey' like Bertrand said, it's just part of the 'political correctness gorn mad' rhetoric, which somehow manages to switch the stakes so that the person saying something offensive is the oppressed party, bravely standing their ground against the Thought Police.

Say what you want! There are a few words which are unequivocably racist. There's a much, much larger grey area of terms and questions that might cause offense, depending on the situation. But if someone explains how X makes them feel, and why, you don't get to tell them: nope, you're wrong; you don't really feel like that, or you're just making it up to be difficult.

Baboooshka · 04/05/2016 09:34

*censor, not censure. (Although censure probably fits, too.)

Malvolia · 04/05/2016 09:35

Amen to that, Babooshka.

Usernamesarehard · 04/05/2016 10:17

I'm mixed race, as are my children. I don't equate "cheeky monkey" to be the same as "monkey boy/girl".

Don't say I'm "pretty for a black girl."
Don't say "but you could pass as white!" As if it's the ultimate compliment.

Don't ask if I know all your black friends. It's not a secret society.

Don't say "I bet you wish you had straight hair"

Don't ask if I can twerk.

Op- the "should I stay away from all black people" comment was twatish. You can stay away from me with my blessing though Smile

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 04/05/2016 10:18

Baboooshka You've hit the nail on the head.

I've had to deal with racism all my life and can spot when people are being like this - the thinly veiled 'it's your fault if you're insulted, you are too sensitive', when really it's just passive aggressive huffing and puffing that they can't say what they want without getting called out on it. I suppose it's a form of gaslighting really - making people of colour doubt themselves; another dimension of mind games some racist people like to play Hmm

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