To feel totally ignorant about racism

[IcingandSlicing]

In that topic the other day I've learned that I am totally ignorant about racism. I had no idea that comments about hair for example that could be totally not ill meant could strike such a deep chord among other people
Or is it the comment itself or the way it was made - by the tone of voice etc nonverbal information you get from people - that makes it racist?
Or just some comments people make regarding kids like cheeky monkey for epinstance (there are tees with this) could be seen as racist?
I'm at a lost to be honest.
I've probably offended many people without even knowing about it.
I'd assume that in 2016 people would feel equal no matter how they look and not take offense from random comments.
Aibu to think that I'd better keep away from black people in case I'd say something that would offend them? (I mean I can say whatever negative thing I want about blond haired people, red haired people, black haired people, people who colour their hair, people who don't colour their hair, people who have thin hair, people who have thick hair, etc, but I feel like with black people it's likely to strike a deeper chord than ever intended and I am ignorant enough not to understand the history behid that makes it worse.)
And sorry about that I really don't mean to offend. Just to understand.

Agreed that

The other one we get is "oh but your DC isn't that dark". I don't know if other parents of mixed race DC get this. It's like it's a blessing and it would be awful to be darker.
(Our DC is about the same skin tone as a friend's DC the same age who has one white and one black parent, as I say we aren't entirely sure of our DC's ancestry but it's clearly not just white).
*my friend works in a hairdressers and her daughter walked with her dad who is balck my friends daughter is very light and looks almost white tbh in the lady getting her hair cut said oh is that your daughter my friend said yes

She then said oh well no one will ever know she almost looks like one of us*

indeed!

I also feel quite uncomfortable when my DC's appearance is compared to food. I know this is a big no-no in some communities but I'm just not sure what to say when someone says "oh those eyes are like Maltesers"

Is that in the same way Golliwogs are cute, Fluffy?

I don't think Golliwogs are cute do you? Maybe you could google why Golliwogs are considered to be racist - and rightly so! Nothing like the same vein as "Cheeky Monkey"!

I've been reading this with interest. My DS is mixed race, Indian and white. The other day it was commented "what a brown baby!" and I felt very uncomfortable. I'm sure they didn't realise he is mixed (I'm white), but I can see how innocent comments can make the person feel othered.

I have asked to touch people's hair before and how they care for it. It never came from a place of thinking it was dirty, it was purely a curiousity thing. I've asked to touch the hair of white people with tight curls as well, however I understand why it must get wearing for the person so I won't do it.

I do think the OP was disingenuous and goady but thankfully most responders have not been.

To those that agree with the OP I agree with others who've suggested educating themselves and perhaps they should start by learning about

White privilege
Othering
Why certain terms are considered racist
Why certain questions are racist

"There have been numerous studies that show that job applicants with a 'typically non-white' sounding name (eg Tyrone, Jamal, Shanice, Mohammed, etc) are far less likely to be called into for interview over a 'white' sounding applicant, even when the CVs are identical (in certain fields, you get double the fun if you're also a woman)."

I've had this, I'm a red headed, very pale skinned Scot but have lived and worked all over the uk/Europe. My first name for my generation was very popular for Caribbean girls, my mum just heard it and liked it she'd wanted an 'unusual' name for me.

As a result I have had reason to believe it's meant I've not reached interview stage, been accused of ticking the 'wrong' box on the equal ops sheet, when I have made it to interview I've wondered sometimes if I've got the interview just so they can claim to be non-racist at least to interview stage...

Dd has also has experienced a little as her dad's of Greek descent and she's inherited his very dark colouring and dark curly hair, she also has almond shaped eyes and has been mistaken for being of Asian or middle Eastern origin, and has been called 'paki' 'terrorist' among other things.

I've friends of various nationalities, ethnicities, Religions etc and seen racism second-hand.

Infuriating that people are still having to deal with this level of sometimes violent prejudice.

So op or anyone that thinks op is right, no it's not acceptable to be racist and claim ignorance, yes you need to think before you speak (and educate yourself so you don't think like that in the first place).

It's nice to see a thread that starts with raised temperatures and becomes reasonable, rather than vice versa.
Something else people might want to look up is intent vs impact.

DD went to a horse riding class for a couple of months and the instructor must have called the riders "cheeky monkey" at least 10 times a lesson. As she was working with the public, I hope she had no understanding of the implication of what she was saying. I bristled at this woman all round and when I caught myself once calling DD a cheeky monkey just after a lesson, we quickly changed riding schools.
As a child, born in the early 70's, I genuinely believed that "half caste" was the correct terminology for the one and only mixed race child in the school. I really cannot remember who told me the terminology, just not my parents. As an adult, I heard/read about the caste system and to my shame learnt I'd unwittingly called her a half breed, I educated myself in the ways of more acceptable language.
And yes, I'm quite new here and a bit about the golliwogs thread. They're a racial slur dressed up as a doll.
Society prizes those, who are deemed in today's standards as extremely beautiful, different, exotic and youthful. We see beautiful people getting on because of their looks, we see models with striking features, which are outside the norm in terms amongst others of height, dress size, jaw definition, leg length, skin tone, eyes size/colour. So I think praising children for their physical appearance is prolific in society as a whole. I really can understand that this is annoying and damaging to children and especially insidious when talking about a child's skin. I was given this type of praise as a baby, where my mother was frequently stopped so passers by could admire my "beautiful white blonde curls and blue eyes" and completely ignore my elder brother. This hurt him greatly and contributed to him becoming insanely jealous of me. I don't get why it is acceptable for a complete stranger to comment further than a smile and an innocuous comment. People, who overstep these boundaries have no concept that they are a) needlessly making the child aware of their appearance as being different, desired or special and, b) Undermining the self esteem of both the child being praised and any other child not being praised. My DD has been stopped a number of times for her hair, she's 7. She has really thick, brown curly/wavy hair. Its quite something to brush especially up to a couple of years ago when it looked like a birds nest most of the time because she wouldn't let me get a brush to it unless washing it. As an only child, she has no siblings for me to concern myself with and as Dd hates her hair, I don't mind this attention but I would if it upset her. However feeling this attention is not negative to my child, I imagine is more the exception than the norm.
DD was talking this morning about a man, who works at her school. He is of mixed race and she described him as the man with the curly hair and a ponytail. She doesn't know any terminology to describe him in terms of his heritage and really I don't think she needs to know. Am I right though? The children at dds school don't seem to differentiate themselves much apart from about 18 months ago when DD came home to tell me some of the children at her school are Indian because they told her they're Indian. School has gently introduced culture and religion and I've taken my lead from there.
I've thought a lot about my upbringing and how I want my DD to think and feel about other people, whoever they are. When I used to go into town at the weekend, a whole bunch of black girls from another school looking mean used to stare at me and any white girl going past. I was frightened and intimidated. I get where they were probably coming from now. I expect they were treated poorly by some whites, disenfranchised and as they came from the worst school in town, will have been brought up on a very rough estate with a fair amount of racism. Sorry I don't know who the poster was I'm really shocked by your experiences of racism on your estate.

You quickly changed riding schools because the instructor called your child a cheeky monkey?

Why do those who think the term of endearment "Cheeky monkey" is racist? Who exactly do you think resemble a monkey? What is it about the term "Cheeky Monkey" that offends you? And more importantly - Why??

Ffs because monkey/chimp/gibbon etc were AND ARE used as derogatory descriptors of people of African descent, not just as looking like these animals, but likening them to animals/describing them as unevolved/unintelligent etc.

Not a term I ever used but sadly I've witnessed my best friend at primary (African American) been hurt by being called this, had monkey sounds and gestures aimed at her etc.

See I'd always thought half-caste was half CAST. I thought it meant like if you cast two metals together you get a mixed alloy kind of thing. Or like if you mix two races together...

It was only a year or two ago I found out it was actually half CASTE, which I always thought was pronouned like paste, not past. I thought my half-cast interpretation was quite neutral and inoffensive and just another way of saying mixed. I now know better of course.

FluffyPineapple- have you never heard, or heard of, monkey noises being made at football grounds to black players? Or bananas being thrown onto the pitch?

Incidentally, what on earth do you think a white supremacist is?

Fluffy Educate yourself, ffs. Just google "monkey and racism." But be warned there is some really nasty stuff out there.

Some basic reading

OP maybe you could try just not making negative comments to people about anything?
Racism is shit. And so common it's unreal.

I said 'used as descriptors' not 'are descriptors' I was referring to the use of the term/noises/gestures by racists!

I don't think Fluffyknows what a white supremacist is.

Well here's a simple reference for them so they know very offensive it was to call ME one!

The ku Klux Klan are white supremacists, Nazis were white supremacists!

Very hurtful to me.

And i can assure you my friend went home in tears after such incidents, I'd walk her home and see how heartbroken her mum was too that her young daughter was dealing with this shit!

I'm very well educated in racism thanks!

www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/racism

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/white-supremacy

What's with Mn posters always asking people to gain an education when they know they are in the wrong, i.e Fluff

How is it so hard to understand this whole thread? People have said its ok to call other children cheeky monkeys, maybe think of the implication it would have when referring to a child with black heritage due to history and current use of the racial slur monkey, yes current. No one is asking for a ban on the term cheeky monkey. There is no intention to either.
I have read a Mnetter writing about their embracing moments when their dcs asked why monkeys where allowed in public swimming pool when referring to the black children. The fact that she had the audacity to post this and then say that children, say it how they see it, is beyond me.

You then have people like fluff trotting along and saying this
Get a grip FFS! Look up the meaning of "Racism" and get yourself an education! The worst thing about racism is the stance of the White Supremist! You really do think too hard and too deep. What angers you does not anger people from a different race. Racism occurs when race is used to put down people. That's it! nothing more and nothing less.
Of course, what angers a black person or someone who is not white will not anger a white person when it's regarding racism. The fact that you think the only racist people are white supremacist and the only racist that should cause offence says a lot about your understanding of racism and how it affects people. It's not just name calling, it psychologically affects people and it detrimental to people's mental health ffs.

Am glad you have no idea how it feels about racism. Every one would wish for that. Am saying this based on what you have written. Believe me, you would not wish it on anyone, unless you were a racist.