To be concerned about my intelligent child at school

[Moomoomango]

This is not a boasting post before I get accused! I am struggling with his intelligence not basking in parental glory!

My son is 4 and due to start school in September. He started talking at 8 months, and has never stopped. He is intelligent and head strong, the last 2 days he started to ask about house numbers - within about 10 minutes he had learnt how to recognise numbers up to 100. I've never tried to teach him more than 10 but I was amazed how quickly he absorbed the information. He is really into science and loves discussing ideas such as gravity, electricity, marine life (a particular passion). He loves doing experiments and will quite often talk about gasses such as carbon dioxide. He loves to dissect fish (one of his fave things to do is buy a fish at fish counter) or garden insects to inspect their insides etc. He will quite confidently explain the anatomy of a fish. I am by no means a pushy parent I just answer his questions and follow his lead.

He is thoroughly bored at pre school, the activities as much more directed at younger children, I feel. I went in today and he was just sat twiddling an abacus. He tells me it's boring and he hates it. Pre school say hes withdrawn and not engaged.

I was speaking to a ta friend of mine who said foundation is basically an extension of pre school, lots of play etc. I'm really worried he will become withdrawn from school if it's not stimulating him. I want him to enjoy school and feel happy and confident. Aibu to be concerned? Is foundation very basic in terms of learning? Or will they support very intelligent children? I'm purposefully holding him back from learning to read so that school can inspire him in that way but to be honest he's so close it's painful!

I just want my child to be supported to be who he is.

He can't relate to most of them because their interests are just not his.

My eldest isn't exceptional - she bright near top of class etc but not exceptional. She likes watching history programs - one female presenter who name I've forgotten did dancing history and done about Russian royalty - I've seen her trying to talk to one of her friends on walk home about it and getting no where and left her feeling odd and frustrated with idea it was odd she liked that kind of thing.

Minecraft was the big thing for mine - you tubers and playing they talked to loads of different people about that in their last school

This one DS is trying to do more football - having not been bother before as at this school it's what the boys do and to fit in he now plays.

I mean the little girl who isn't doing much better than everyone else in maths now in Y3. Is it because actually she is just average or is it because schools are notoriously bad at teaching maths to girls and in particular are very good at teaching them that maths arent for girls??

A good point there - as well. Had that with my DD1 - her enthusiasm started to wane over ks1 and she picked up that message.

We started her with on-line maths program - took her school years to realise how good at maths she had gotten .

issu good point about social skills.
I'm always baffled by the fact people think that children have good social skills because they have friends at school (that they have known since reception) but these are the same children who are frightened to go to secondary 'because they don';t know how to make friends' (ie what Y6 often say) or don't know how to be with either younger or older children or adults.

Just seen your latest post,. Scotsman. But surely it is possible to let them learn things at home that are not a direct reproduction or different version of the lessons they'll be having at school? Maybe the OP's fish dissection is not such a bad thing...

A musical instrument, as suggested by somebody up-thread. Even if they do do music at school later, they can always do a different instrument. A language they will not be studying at school. More nature learning than school will cater for (the OP seems well on track here). Different works of fiction- for instance, more classics than they will be reading at school. If you live by the seaside, why not a course in navigation when they are a bit older: that is good for maths. Orienteering and map-reading. Cooking without scales so they have to convert the measurements into fluid ounces. Teaching them musical notation and encouraging them to compose. I just can't see how the possibilities can possibly give out in anybody's lifetime.

Otoh I do think there is a tendency to consider a socially struggling child with intellectual interests as very bright- which may or may not be true.

Completely agree with this and I also think that's what most posters have been trying to portray. OP's lad looks like he's displaying characteristics that we'd stereotypically associate with very intelligent children, though the examples she gives of his intelligence don't really jump out as being a huge amount above average. I believe most posters are giving comparisons to help the OP realise she's misidentified the problem.

My son was exactly the same. I was really worried. It sound stupid to worry that your child is bright. He started saying his first words at 8 months, he new colours, numbers to 10 etc by 15 months. He was telling and understanding jokes by 2 and a half. His memory still amazes me and he's now 7. We live in Wales so I sent him to a Welsh language school as I was afraid he would be bored at school. He's top of his class even though we don't speak Welsh at home. Myself, the school and the health visitor were at one point concerned that her may have aspergers. His his ability to be social ruled that out. I don't worry about it as much as before. My son is fitting in and has many friends. He's happy and I think that's all that should matter. Even if I still have to google stuff to find out the answers to his constant questions. So I'd say relax and speak to the school. Potentialplusuk.org have helpful tips.

OVienna's comments are key, I think. That was why I suggested earlier that OP should definitely not overstress to he DS how clever he is, because that alone is unlikely to be enough without the skills OVienna mentions.

I can't comment on how well primary schools extend very bright children these days because I took mine out of the state system when DS1 was 6 and DS 2 (the v early developer) was 4. The school they attended had lots of problems and DS2 was getting a very poor deal. Now before anyone jumps on me, I accept that private education is not within everyone's reach, but outside the South East, it can be a lot cheaper that you might expect. My DS's school provides, effectively, free or very reasonable wraparound care because of its breakfast club and late opening hours. An academically selective school has meant that DS2 is very much more the norm, and lessons are pitched at his level.

I think a lot has changed in the 8 years since my 2 were at our local primary. From friends' experiences, it seems that the curriculum and the overriding need to bring everyone up to a particular level, means that some very bright children are not well catered for academically. The best solutions seem to be to provide lots of stimulation outside school - encourage reading and other activities such as learning an instrument, if funds allow. The gifted and talented programmes have also helped friends' children, but I hate the over-liberal use of the word "gifted", as the programmes seem to be aimed at a much broader band of children than that title would suggest.

You clearly don't know many uber bright people , in my experience lack of social skills in the seriously bright is practically the norm.

Welll I lived with five other people at university (Cambridge). Three of us got firsts, three of us did phds, two of them got good upper seconds. One is a human rights lawyer, one is an anthropologist etc. We were also the party house. There were very few people I knew from lectures who were socially inept and most of them were very, very clever.

Totally agree about lack of shared interests.

My Godson is like your DS. He could count to 1000 in English, French and German before he started school and has the most incredible memory. His parents are of average intelligence so naturally have been very impressed with his academic abilities.

He is 9 now and his downfall is social relations. He has always been way above his classmates academically but has been bullied throughout his little school life, perhaps due to jealousy. My friend's biggest mistake, i think, was letting him know he was different or better than his class peers (though to be honest it was bloody obvious to the kid anyway). It breaks my heart to hear he now stifles his own abilities in order not to draw attention to himself. So he makes deliberate mistakes in the vain hope that his classmates will like him more.

You need to focus on his personal skills now, not encourage his academic skills IMHO.

flyingscotsman
"I mean the little girl who isn't doing much better than everyone else in maths now in Y3. Is it because actually she is just average or is it because schools are notoriously bad at teaching maths to girls and in particular are very good at teaching them that maths arent for girls??
Is the little girl who was playing with her peers and doing everything the nursery teacher was telling her, like everyone else, doing so because that was her or because of the social pressure for girls to be social, to fit in (that also means aligning yourself to the others btw, even if this means lowering yourself down) etc...?"
I fully agree that some schools have a bad reputation for teaching maths to girls, but not in our case. Our, very ordinary state primary in London had excellent maths/numeracy provision in Reception (a teacher who had, up until then only taught years 4 and upwards, so was really engaged with all the kids re numeracy and went above and beyond what she had to teach them).
Y1 was a disaster - teacher didn't give a shit about teaching and left the profession that summer. Maths and everything else was taught at the absolute bare minimum level to comply with the curriculum. I definitely noticed my DD's enthusiasm for numeracy wane big time.
She may have been a 'natural' for numeracy when she was in pre school, but by Y1 was bored with maths and thought still in the top set, didn't see the 'point' of numeracy any more.
In Y2 she had the school's maths lead teacher as her form teacher - very dynamic person, loved the subject and did cool extras like Harry Potter maths, dressed as a witch and they got to learn about measures/volumes with coloured liquids in test tubes and beakers . She was also a teacher brought down to Y2 from previous Y5 class, so tended to 'over-teach'. DD's interest shot back up, though she did find the problems teacher set them quite tricky at times, as the teacher was pitching them at a higher level than they would normally have had at Y2.
Some kids in the class really struggled with this, actually.
It was great for my DD and some of the others who were (back then) in the top set for maths, and could get their teeth into a challenge, but it didn't work for all the children, all of the time.
This year, maths provision is at best ordinary. Teacher isn't the best, and has admitted that maths isn't really her strong point.
Levels in maths and literacy have been abolished now, so they are all in mixed ability groups for both subjects.
So much depends on the class teacher you are allocated though.
My DD isn't what you'd call a natural in maths now - she has a good head for figures, problem solving and spatial stuff (she plays almost exclusively with Lego and loves Minecraft, for example) and is very into science, but still can't be arsed to learn all her times tables, no matter how many different approaches we've tried...

PS: she played with her peers in reception, very much because that 'was her' bw. She's very gregarious naturally.

Levels haven't been abolished at all. Children are still evaluated regularly. What has changed is the way it's done (below expectation, reaching expectation or aboive expectations rather levesl 4a, 2c etc).
In my dcs school, nothing has changed re tables and levels. There is still no mixed level groups in maths and litteracy.

What HAS changed is that the school aren't allowed to teach above a certain level. They are supposed to do 'deepening activities' instead whatever that means. (But again ime, something that isn't evaluated and sort of keep the children busy whilst the rest of the class gets on with the work). Obviously this is an even bigger issue for children who ARE bright and well ahead as there is no such a thing as 'working at the level of the child' if there ever was.

It breaks my heart to hear he now stifles his own abilities in order not to draw attention to himself. So he makes deliberate mistakes in the vain hope that his classmates will like him more.

I see that with dc1 even though I have spent my time telling he wasn't that different than everyionbe else, everyone has their strengths etc... So it might have nothing to do with what his mum told him.

Where I live, being 'nerdy', 'highly intelligent/academic' or whatever you want to call it is NOT seen as good thing. Nor wanting to go to a very good Uni. Nope. That's seen as bragging, thinking above yourself or better than everyone else.

I think there really should be additional help in school for child er with a higher learning potential. There is always a spectrum of ability in young children and those that are lagging behind get help to get up to the average set standard (which I'm not saying they shouldn't) but the high ability learners shouldn't be left so that they drop down to average ability. There is simply not the money available for extra help in school for kids with high learning potential. As a parent you simply have to try your best to feed their ability whilst keeping them grounded so that they fit in society.

FlyingScotsman Wed 27-Apr-16 11:53:03

"Where I live, being 'nerdy', 'highly intelligent/academic' or whatever you want to call it is NOT seen as good thing. Nor wanting to go to a very good Uni. Nope. That's seen as bragging, thinking above yourself or better than everyone else."

Sounds exactly like the place I grew up. And to some extent (though not quite as much) like where dc have grown up.

I could have done with all the balancing and negotiating skills my parents could have taught me.

The issue with input at home is that they are still learning stuff that others don't know and it makes school getting more and more boring.
dc1 is REFUSING to learn new stuff/doing stuff at home because of that.

Not a problem I've had.

Mine had sometime grumbled about having to use number lines instead of being allowed to do column addition or use times tables - but they know going over basic methods again and looking at different ways to solve maths problems are good things partly as we tell them that partly because they know extra practise at basic maths has increased their speed and confidence.

The extra they do while covering what the schools should cover hasn't followed the same plan - so they may have encountered topic first at school or home and most topics they come back to via the home stuff and build on. The school does it's own thing and they can get excited when the realise it stuff they are currently doing or have done before .

Perhaps it's a benefit to them not being naturally brilliant but having some considerable talent and having to work to develop it.

They see wider maths problems and explanations of You tube as it's DH area of interest. They see just how huge an area maths can be as well. Also have maths books - problem activity books and books like the Murderous Maths series around the house and seen a few maths history programs.

Where I live, being 'nerdy', 'highly intelligent/academic' or whatever you want to call it is NOT seen as good thing. Nor wanting to go to a very good Uni. Nope. That's seen as bragging, thinking above yourself or better than everyone else.

DH grew up in an area like that - MIL still has that attitude - refuses to use his DR title. He had one inspiring teacher who told him to push himself and a Dad who sat down and bluntly said it would be better to earn a living with his brain than with his back like he had.

I do worry about DS and this - though he can be fiercely competitive there isn't that much competition at his new school something he pointed out why should he try more harder with his written vocabulary - it was DD1 who turned round and said you have to compete with yourself while I was saying well your competing against a bigger pool than your school class - and you'll see that at secondary and beyond.

If I were you OP, I'd ignore all the negative comments. I assume you'd been round several schools in your area before you made your decision to send your son to one, that is if there are different options. I don't think all the 'social skills' posts are valid here at all, I think some kids are naturally more popular, chatty or extraverted than others, and if your son is happy learning rather than socializing, so be it!! However if learning is what he wants to do and his school won't support him in it, (and it all depends on their resources, attitude etc) then there is an issue. But you won't know till you try I guess. You can always change schools if he's genuinely unhappy or homeschool. I think it's perfectly normal to worry about how your child feels about school.

f my child's pre-school had told me he was withdrawn and not engaged I'd be more concerned about his poor social skills and inability to play with his peer group than about how to handle his intelligence.

I'd be asking them what they propose to do about it. If he wasn't engaged they should not be leaving him twiddling with an abacus.

Absolutely agree with NannyOgg here. A good nursery would be interested in supporting him and coming up with a plan of action. My ds was very withdrawn and unengaged for different reasons, and both nursery and school put a lot of effort into helping him.

BreakfastMuffin, being happy learning rather than socialising is good up to a point, but it can make you miss a good many intellectual and professional opportunities later on in life as I know to my cost. It took me many years to work out that if I sit around waiting for people who are exactly on my wave-length I will miss out on a lot of interactions that I could have learnt from. It's taken me even more years to develop the confidence to step out of my comfort zone and try to engage.

Even now I am constantly missing out on opportunities because I haven't got a network and do not feel confident about my skills to build one. And not having a network means not getting the support I need to find funding, it means not being part of projects, it means projects that I could really shine at not getting off the ground, it means that most of the work I do is not stretching me to the limits of my intellectual capacity. So in other words I have ended up in a situation where it is precisely the part of me that I thought was all-important that is missing out on chances.

Looking at how much I have actually been able to smooth the path for my dd by encouraging her to move out of her comfort zone and teach herself new tricks which do not come naturally to her, I do wish someone had understood the value of that for me when I was young.

The issue with input at home is that they are still learning stuff that others don't know and it makes school getting more and more boring

I completely disagree and think it depends on what you are teaching them at home. If you're actively trying to teach them phonics and sums (or in other words, parts of the national curriculum) in advance then of course there's a chance they may be bored in school when the teacher's still going over basics.

But there is so much a young child can learn outside of the NC. Ds1 couldn't read going into Reception, but he could have blown your mind with the detailed facts he knew about dinosaurs, Australia, the uses of compost, the process of buying a house, how a ladder is made, how rice is grown and a hundred other random subjects he had shown an interest in and we had learned about together.

You clearly don't know many uber bright people , in my experience lack of social skills in the seriously bright is practically the norm.

Completely disagree. The only common trait I see in extremely bright people is curiosity.

And just to add, most of the things I can remember ds1 asking about aged 3 or 4 has stuck (so far). He's 8 now and could still sit you down and talk to you for ten minutes about the precise process involved in growing rice!

"The only common trait I see in extremely bright people is curiosity."

You might be right there. I have been more or less saying "they are all different" on this thread, but that is actually a common denominator. A non-curious child can do well at school and be bright in the sense of easily learning what is required of them. But "extremely bright" does seem come with this element of always asking questions and trying to push themselves. Though there are of course non-gifted people who always ask questions too. Just not the same kind of questions...

Greasel it depends what your child is interested in though.
Dc1's knowledge on steam engines isn't going to make him stand out in class.
His knowledge in history didn't until he reached secondary. Same for his interest in chemistry. But now that he is there, it's a different issue because all these things (that he used to enjoy a lot before) suddenly look 'boring and simple' again (when he was looking forward to do more complex things and learn new subjects)
However his love of numbers did. Because however you want to take it, if you are going to do more maths, then it will be something they do in class.

cory they ask question until they learn that it is not welcome to do so though...
See the Y4 teacher most upset of dc1 input because his knowledge could be better than hers in some areas....

I was going to contribute but can't see the OP has been back?