To be concerned about my intelligent child at school

[Moomoomango]

This is not a boasting post before I get accused! I am struggling with his intelligence not basking in parental glory!

My son is 4 and due to start school in September. He started talking at 8 months, and has never stopped. He is intelligent and head strong, the last 2 days he started to ask about house numbers - within about 10 minutes he had learnt how to recognise numbers up to 100. I've never tried to teach him more than 10 but I was amazed how quickly he absorbed the information. He is really into science and loves discussing ideas such as gravity, electricity, marine life (a particular passion). He loves doing experiments and will quite often talk about gasses such as carbon dioxide. He loves to dissect fish (one of his fave things to do is buy a fish at fish counter) or garden insects to inspect their insides etc. He will quite confidently explain the anatomy of a fish. I am by no means a pushy parent I just answer his questions and follow his lead.

He is thoroughly bored at pre school, the activities as much more directed at younger children, I feel. I went in today and he was just sat twiddling an abacus. He tells me it's boring and he hates it. Pre school say hes withdrawn and not engaged.

I was speaking to a ta friend of mine who said foundation is basically an extension of pre school, lots of play etc. I'm really worried he will become withdrawn from school if it's not stimulating him. I want him to enjoy school and feel happy and confident. Aibu to be concerned? Is foundation very basic in terms of learning? Or will they support very intelligent children? I'm purposefully holding him back from learning to read so that school can inspire him in that way but to be honest he's so close it's painful!

I just want my child to be supported to be who he is.

My young cousin asked me once was God real. My mum is way older than my uncle, cousin not much older than my ds actually. I was 21, he was 7. He was asking in a "santas not real is he? I'm not stupid" sort of way, only about God. I asked what he thought "erm.. I think Jesus was very nice" which is the sort of answer I would have given myself he's the most like me personality wise.

How can your knowledge of history ever make history boring? Serious question.

Isn't it just the case of reading different and other and more history? Or just writing better and more insightful essays? Isn't the subject never-ending? And in these days of the internet and easily accessible books, how can it possibly be difficult to find some different era or a new aspect of the same era that doesn't replicate the school curriculum?

Who gets bored with literature because they have read too many books? Or even the same book several times (as long as it is a good enough book to stand up to it). I read the Odyssey as a 10yo. I read it again as a teen. I read it as an undergraduate, I read it as a postgraduate, I have re-read it repeatedly as an adult. Bored? That to me would seem like a lack of intellectual curiosity.

It would be like a violinist never wanting to play the same piece again because he did it as a teen.

Maths, yes that I can understand. And possibly even chemistry. But the humanities?

Sorry point of story, kids can surprise you. And it can feel very weird to see yourself in children, my ds is more like my sister, the faces he pulls and much braver than I was!

FlyingScotsman Wed 27-Apr-16 13:15:35

"cory they ask question until they learn that it is not welcome to do so though...
See the Y4 teacher most upset of dc1 input because his knowledge could be better than hers in some areas...."

I wasn't really thinking of asking questions of the teacher: I was thinking of asking questions of yourself. Going to the library, borrowing a dictionary to try to decipher a text in a different language, trying to write a play, taking household appliances to pieces and putting them back together again, devising computer programmes, observing the wildlife in your garden, researching a country you want to visit or a historical period you are interested in- ime those are the kind of things that bright children do once they reach a certain age. And that can easily be encouraged by parents.

Asking questions of a teacher and giving up the moment you don't get the answer served on a plate doesn't seem very intellectually curious to me at all; that sounds like someone who expects to be entertained.

I had several teachers who knew less than I. A bit embarrassing until I had learnt how to deal with it, but it would never have occurred to me to give up learning for that reason.

As long as his classmates don't start dissappearing once your little Dexter joins then I wouldn't worry ;)

See the Y4 teacher most upset of dc1 input because his knowledge could be better than hers in some areas....

I encountered the IT teacher with this attitude - luckily so far it hasn't put of DS who likes to explore partly because we now know this is an issue and encourage all aspects of computing and exploration at home.

Do see the result in DD1 and her friend - they were asking how to do something simple instead of trying the help or looking down the menu - where it was. We hadn't used that particular software before so that what we did. Had that happen a few times before we started questioning why they weren't doing that as a matter of course as DS does. The IT teacher tells them not to but to ask they get told off it they don't - then they often watch him do exactly what we were all doing looking down menu and accessing the help pages.

Because he has already read/learnt a lot about the subjects they are doing atm so there is very little new information??
Books I fully agree with you, especially the ones like ''The Odysee'.

The issue is the depth. Of course you can learn a lot about the Crusades, why they were started etc... If the lessons is all about 'we've participated in X crusades and Richard the Lion Heart did xxx' then maybe not.
And also the issue of expectation. When the expectation from the teachers are low and that people around already tell you that basically you know too much, where is the incentive to keep on being curious and learning new things? Actually you are more likely to NOT want to learn more.mSee what Pink was saying about her godson

This isn't the point of the thread, but if he's that into anatomy and marine stuff, then I'd teach him to fish. He gets to dissect things and you get a nice trout for dinner.

Or alternatively most butchers can get you hearts and various internal organs for cheap or free.

School will bring it's own challenges, and I wouldn't be worrying about that unless / until it happens. Keep him happy and engaged at home.

Don't serial killers start off with small animals?

Is your DS an only child OP?

Corythatwas - I see your point but often the school/preschool is not the one and only place to develop 'social skills'. I'm saying that if a child is bored at school with something he's passionate about - learning in this case - he's not exactly going to be happy and content to be challenged with what he finds hard anyway - eg social interaction.

Also if you read around the subjects of highly able children, you will see that the litterature is littered with issues of bright children wasting their abilities, going off the rails, not putting any effort in etc...

A lot of it I suspect is down to the fact that they have learnt to not ask question, to squash their curiosity. And how boring these subjects can be to them, either because they get things so quickly or because the depth isn't there (Note I'm not saying going everywhere further than faster than the others. But about the possibility to go deeper in the subject).A lot of it is linked with a suystem that even though it was suppose to work at the level of e child just can NOT do it. At least now, the new curriculum is clear. There will be no teaching above a certain level done....

so it's not a question of one child not putting enough effort or whatever. It's an issue with the system.

I do get what you are saying, FlyingScotsman, I just think with history it should have been so easy to find a period that you can be pretty sure is never going to come up at school and then encouraging that. Ancient Egypt, the history of the Chinese Wall, the colonisation of the Pacific, the kingdom of Benin- the choice is endless. And then Richard the Lionheart wouldn't bother you, because it would all be new and an addition to your exhaustive knowledge about Pharaoh Amenhotep.

Same with languages: there are about 10 000 of them and plenty of teach yourself courses. My mother encouraged me to learn German because she knew I wouldn't be doing it at school.

But I do get what you are saying about the depressing effect of being surrounded by people who don't think you should be learning very much at all.

What someone said is true that there are schools abroad that don't even start formal learning till much later yet the children go on to learn extremely well.
So as he is doing so much at home anyway, why not just make the most of the social side at school for now?

At home he could read, follow his hobbies, have his little friends round.

He should not be isolated or bullied, but if he is maybe the school could help.
It would also help if you got to know the other parents and children and invited the children to play.

You did not mention what the other children are like. Usually there might be two or three other children in the class who are clever in the way he is, or in a particular field, as well as some very artistic/creative children. Creative, independent thinking and a sense of exploration and fun adds a lot to pure intelligence.

Schools do not teach much in depth generally speaking in my opinion unless the teacher is exceptional. It is all they can do to get all the children through the curriculum. But your child can still add all he wants to what he is presented with.
Early years schools often welcome the children bringing things to school to enrich what they are learning about.

A good Montessori nursery school would help your child be with other children but develop at his own pace.

My very bright dd is in reception.
When we went for the meeting before school started, the teacher said that things she considered important are being able to dress and undress/ go to the toilet / use a knife and fork etc.
Dd is at a small primary with over 60% sen and ofsted recently downgraded to requires improvement.
When my ds was there ( he has autism ) and struggled with the dressing/knife and fork aspects but not academically, there was hardly any homework and now it's constant, for 4/5 year olds. The curriculum has changed and there is more emphasis on learning rather than just learning through play.

I believe our school are pushing the reception class due to the ofsted, I may be wrong but the amount of work they get is astounding.

There are massive variations of ability in dd's class of 30, reception teachers are highly trained and knowledgeable to realise who needs extra help etc.
lots of mums talk and we have dc who can read adult books to dc who can't write their name.
Your bright boy will be catered for very well I've no doubt.

One difference between the situation of a bright child in the past and the situation of a bright child in the present is that it was much, much harder in the past to get the extra-curricular stimulation required before the invention of the internet and the easy accessibility of books on all sorts of subjects. Jude the Obscure does not have the opportunities he would have today of finding out what is actually going on in his subject.

I was fortunate in growing up in a family where the adults displayed endless intellectual curiosity and there was a plethora of stimulating possibilities, not just books but instruments and people doing things with their hands (often badly because we are not a gifted family that way) and a basic expectation that you would be out and about exploring nature because that was what everybody did. I do not recollect ever feeling bored as a child because life, if not school, was such a fascinating place. If a lesson was a bit dull I could always think about the reading I had done around the subject and plan further reading. The idea of giving up on learning didn't occur because my grandfather in his 80s was still learning, my parents in their 40s and 50s were still learning, it seemed as natural as breathing.

Of course not all families can do everything mine did (and as I said, they did fall down rather on the socialising side). But we do have the internet and books are easier to get hold of than ever before and TV channels have far more to offer than they did. I have opportunities to do things for my children that my parents did not have, and with very little effort.

Should add that of my two children one has proved an enthusiastic learner and the kind who will go on learning wherever you put her. The other is lazy and will do what he is made to do. Incidentally, he has the same attitude to everything else in life: he will do it but not if it takes much effort. I do not blame the school: I blame him.

Greasel it depends what your child is interested in though. Dc1's knowledge on steam engines isn't going to make him stand out in class

Yes but I suppose the real question is why you would want them to 'stand out in class'.

No one is (probably) going to test ds1 on his intricate knowledge of rice growing. And he probably won't be asked in school what the population of Australia is. Or how many vertebrae an Apatosaurus had.

But it's still decent enough general knowledge to have. Stuff that his 3/4/5 year old brain wanted to know. Random facts that may one day be of use to him. And, more importantly, he enjoyed learning it. IMO what kids learn at a very young age isn't as important as nurturing their desire to learn, which can last a lifetime.

cory you seem to be thinking that I was the one who taught him about history and that I could have chosen something else.
As it is, I haven't. History isn't my strong point and what I know is from my own country, not the uk. What he knows is from his own reading, watching programs (there was on the BBC recently just about that subject. It actually contradicted what the teacher told them too...) etc...
I have never chosen the subjects that my dcs have learnt about. I've proposed some subjects (such as let's visit this castle) and then he chose books at the little shop on the way out etc..

A lot of other interests he got is coming from 'pushing' programs from my own country so they could hear more opf their minority language....

Also, a lot depends on what else is going in their life.
Dc1 always feels diffrent from his peers. He doesn't like the same sports (or rather football) even though he is good at sports. He is bilingual/bicultural. He is bright. His interests are different from most people. We, at home, don't do things the same way and certainly seem to expect much more of him than any other of his friends.
He actually told us the other week that he felt he was rather than British because he clearly isn't doing/liking things like everyone else here. He has never lived in my home country....
From that angle, he is more likely to want to 'fit in' in other ways and that means not appearing 'too bright' nor wanting to learn more about said subjects (I have encouraged that to no avail)

And to be fair, as a bright student, I have never tried and go and learn more about the subjects I've done at school either... I do now, as an adult. And I read about all sort of subjects too. and apparently I'm weird to be able to talk about politics or philosophy or ethics because I'm a scientist first and scientists don't do that
I wouldn't expect that from him either. I just wish he would keep his curiosity open and would carry on putting the little bit of work he needs to do whilst hoping that once at Uni he will find his feet again.

Thank you for your responses, sorry I am only just getting back to replying now.

He does struggle socially in many ways, he prefers the company of adults and will only talk about one friend at pre school.

I am not a helicopter parent and I am not under illusion that he's a genius, but I do know my child is bright and I Naturally want what is best for my child.

Thank you to those that understood that and reassured me!

Can you just reassure us that he's not killing bugs op?

If you can get back to full time work or are working full time the best option is one of the very academic private schools. Our chidlren went to those at 4 and did extremely well. Everyone in the class is very bright so the whole class is working at quite a high level.

What's the killing bugs thing about?
We all did this when I was little, boys, girls, at school/home/playground.

I think I only ever knew one murderer and he was a surprise to everybody.
Only met him in secondary though when we'd grown out of killing bugs, not sure if he did or not.

OP on a serious note, we have a very gifted child and specialist school seems to be working fine for her and keeps her challenged at the right level.
If you can afford private I'd say go for this as long as it is a good school.

Moomoomango I agree with some of the other posters, the real problem here is not that pre-school isn't stretching your child intellectually (that's not really what pre-school is for).

The real issue is that he's not engaging with his peers. That isn't because he's bored intellectually, it's because he struggles socially, as you've said. What has the pre-school said they will do to help him with this? Have they suggested anything you can do, eg one on one playdates with other children?

Lack of social skills will be a much bigger problem for him when he starts school than being intellectually bored. (If he is bright then he will learn to read quickly and he can always be given more reading material by the school if he is ahead of other kids).

So, in your shoes, I'd be asking preschool how they propose to help him with his social skills, and also trying to do whatever I could myself to develop those, rather than worrying about him being sufficiently academically stimulated.