To be concerned about my intelligent child at school

[Moomoomango]

This is not a boasting post before I get accused! I am struggling with his intelligence not basking in parental glory!

My son is 4 and due to start school in September. He started talking at 8 months, and has never stopped. He is intelligent and head strong, the last 2 days he started to ask about house numbers - within about 10 minutes he had learnt how to recognise numbers up to 100. I've never tried to teach him more than 10 but I was amazed how quickly he absorbed the information. He is really into science and loves discussing ideas such as gravity, electricity, marine life (a particular passion). He loves doing experiments and will quite often talk about gasses such as carbon dioxide. He loves to dissect fish (one of his fave things to do is buy a fish at fish counter) or garden insects to inspect their insides etc. He will quite confidently explain the anatomy of a fish. I am by no means a pushy parent I just answer his questions and follow his lead.

He is thoroughly bored at pre school, the activities as much more directed at younger children, I feel. I went in today and he was just sat twiddling an abacus. He tells me it's boring and he hates it. Pre school say hes withdrawn and not engaged.

I was speaking to a ta friend of mine who said foundation is basically an extension of pre school, lots of play etc. I'm really worried he will become withdrawn from school if it's not stimulating him. I want him to enjoy school and feel happy and confident. Aibu to be concerned? Is foundation very basic in terms of learning? Or will they support very intelligent children? I'm purposefully holding him back from learning to read so that school can inspire him in that way but to be honest he's so close it's painful!

I just want my child to be supported to be who he is.

It is easy for parents, who naturally take pride in their child's achievements, to inadvertently give the impression to the child that without these achievements they would not be loveable.

This is harder than it sounds and I'm sure many parents would look at this and believe it's the easiest thing in the world not to do.
Even when you repeatedly tell them over and over again they can get this impression.

He sounds like a fairly normal, yes inquisitive, 4 yr old
Keep on encouraging him to explore the world, take him to museums, explore the countryside....yes there may be other bright kids in his class- make friends with them , but also realise there are also kids who develop at slower rates but who may be lovely people to know as well!
My dh couldn't read till he was 11, has IQ of 160'and is a doubly qualified professional with 3 degrees! ( and he loved dissecting fish too!)....not a psychopath!
Too many mner are quick to shoot you down, when you only want the best for your child

I'm agash at all the stupidity that some posters have said.
So may preconceived ideas all there to put people down and tell you that your child can NOT possibly or remotely be more intelligent than little Johnny.

And the some posters are wondering why the OP hasn't come back?? Well I wouldn't.

Some childre ARE more intelligent than their peers just as some of them are better at swimming and will become gold medallists or some are better at football and will be recruted age 11yo by some big clubs. Special abilities aren't just for sports or music. It's also true for academic abilities.

blindsider Wed 27-Apr-16 10:12:37

"You clearly don't know many uber bright people , in my experience lack of social skills in the seriously bright is practically the norm."

Maybe we have different definitions of uber-bright. But some of the most outstanding academics I have met have been perfectly fine socially. So I wouldn't say there is a one-to-one correspondence here.

Otoh I do think there is a tendency to consider a socially struggling child with intellectual interests as very bright- which may or may not be true.

I have met a few of those: often young men, who have been taught all their lives that their intelligence is what sets them apart from other people and that being set apart from other people is a sign that they are special. And then they get to PhD level and struggle to understand the intellectual concepts, while some seemingly air-headed party-goer sweeps through and writes a brilliant thesis. I've seen them unravel and it is very sad.

Ime a bubbly child with ordinary childhood and teen interests (especially if female) is far less likely to be considered exceptionally bright regardless of actual output. There is an expectation that if you are "gifted" you should behave in a certain way and if you don't then you can't be gifted.

Of course there is an overlap but not a straight 1-1 correspondence: more like a Venn diagram.

OP, I really wouldn't worry. He sounds bright but he won't be the only bright child in the school and the teacher should be able to stretch the bright ones while supporting the ones who need more help. That's the skill of being a teacher.

One thing I would say is that it's worth making sure you talk to him in terms of learning as a process involving effort, rather than being tempting to talk more about intelligence leading to achievement. Bright kids often receive the message that they can do things because of their innate abilities. Thus, when they encounter something they can't do immediately, they put that down to a lack of innate ability and give up, whereas children who have had to make more effort earlier on understand that you can improve performance by working at something and thus are more able to stick with things. It's well worth learning the lesson that effort and practice count as much as or more than talent. Starting an instrument is good for this.

Should add for the sake of completeness that I have also known socially struggling young people whose "intellectual air" has been matched by genuine academic ability.

But after 30 years in academe I have given up on the idea that you can judge anybody's intellectual capacity from the way they behave: you have to listen to what they say and read what they write.

We can't know what the OP's little boy will turn out to be like. But anybody- gifted or not-gifted- will benefit from an open and joyful attitude towards learning of all sorts of kind, intellectual, social and practical. That is the only thing that is sure.

It sounds like a poor nursery/preschool.

My eldest went to a preschool that didn't suit. She said she was bored some days - days a slightly younger child wasn't there and didn't want to go - what she was was socially isolated and picked and the staff didn't stop or intervene - plus she was shouted at with wee accidents - this all came out bit later from parent helpers and staff after she left .

I was persuaded by family to keep her there against my instincts.

I was so worried about her starting school - most of the preschool children hadn't gotten into her school and few that had were in other class. Best thing that could of happened - she had a great year and she was so happy and much more out going though that did take some time.

I'd probably start teaching phonics sound - er, oa and see about simple blending - while continuing to read stories to him. My children's pre-school did that kine of thing anyway - if from that he starts reading I'd let him he won't be first child to start school reading.

The internet is great for resources, there are load s of fun maths activities - backing weighing - same with reading lots of reading of books - taking to libraries. Bitesized BBC stuff, home ed sites - more formally things like Khan Academy.

I'd rethink the pre-school now, are there other options locally could he stay home with you for a few months, and then see how he gets on in school and his September teachers take on him.

Okay the killing insect thing is odd.
Aside from that, yes reception is play based (thank goodness) but activities are planned to take into account the age stage and need of the child so the school should work to ensure that every child is supported to further their development.
Your child sounds very bright, they are a sponge at that age. So do as you're doing, answer his questions and keep learning fun.
I'm sure he will flourish at school x

Completely shocked at the posters calling him a potential psychopath/serial killer because he likes looking inside fish. Seriously, what a horrible thing to say.

They get the fish from the fish counter, the fish are already dead because someone else plans to EAT them. They look inside the fish to find out what makes fish work. Like, erm, let's say Charles Darwin or Leonardo da Vinci.

Good luck OP, your little boy sounds like he's got a lot going for him!

Kind well maybe you should go the schools and talk to them or go to see all the other children and talk to them too.

Because i've spend YEARS telling my child he shouldn't consider he is just brainy, that actually some people are as or more intelligent than him. But schools and other children didn't see it that way and made that point very clear to him along side the idea that his work always had to be the best.

The issue is NOT adding challenge after challenge or loving them only for their acheivements or whatever. The issue is to

• teach them resillience which means finding something they find hard to do.
• keep their curiosity going. If you never give them 'challenges', which aren't challenges for them, they're just interesting things to do, fun, how are you going to keep their curiosty open. When are they going to learn new things and the pleasure that goes with it?
• teach them that you need to put the ffort in, even when it looks easy and that they should be doing their best (which will actually be doing THE best in their case)

Believe me, having a child in that same position, it's hard. And schools are VERY good at teaching children that doing average is enough, thereby teaching said able children they don't need to make any effort at all.

I heartily agree with those posters who have said to concentrate on practical skills at home. Having done a fair amount of volunteering in reception classes over the years, I can honestly say that the kids who settle in the best are the ones who can manage all the personal skills like dressing and undressing, coats, shoes, going to the toilet, opening packets in packed lunches or using knives and forks etc. Because they are confident with this stuff, they feel more comfortable and capable and are better primed to learn all the phonics and the maths and everything else.

TBH I don't think he sounds exceptionally gifted either OP. Not being rude, just factual, btw.

My daughter could count to 100, read fluently and was very engaged and interested in the world around her re science/maths/anything really, at 4.
Her nursery spotted this and her key worker would set out some slightly more challenging stuff for her to do, now and again, just because...but she always interacted with the other children and did all the activities set out for the class (it was up to key worker to adjust the odd activity to the many different levels within her own key group, which she was very good at doing I may add).
DD was never bored and had lots of little friends.

As others have said, learning through play at this age is so much more than academia in miniature. It's about learning interactions with others, which is as important I'd say. It's what sets them up for primary and beyond.

FWIW, DD is now in Y3 and although still very intrigued and interested in everything, is far more 'mainstream' than she was at 4, or even 2. She's still way above average for her group in reading, but not so much any more in maths, for example, so just to say that your DS may level out over time too.

It's fascinating to watch them grown and learn, but try not to fall into the trap of thinking that nobody or nothing can give your gifted child the stimulus they require.

I'd say, OP, that you need to talk to to him and the school about joining in more abd pushing his interests outside their comfort zone. I have a v academic ds2. It's good he has siblings! They are both v creative, artistic, as am I, so we've always done those things at home. They also do a lot of imaginative play wguch he eventually jobs in with. His dad is very sporty and helped him develop that side of himself. (It's amazing how being good at football is part of being socially popular). I'm really grateful he is well rounded in this way. If he'd been brought up in my uncle's family (not creative, v academic, doctor and professor), I think he'd have been pushed more academically but not developed the other skills he has now he's 7 and probably be a less rounded human being. Just my thoughts based on our experience.

Oh and ignore the negativity from some posters. Everyone is so supportive of a parent keen to support their child who is struggling, not so supportive of a parent asking advice in how to contribute supporting their child who is doing very well.
Very sad!

Wow some posters need to learn the meaning of support. "Get over yourself. He sounds like he will be a serial killer" Nice. Did that make you feel better to say that?

Another comment, dc1 IS 'uber bright'. He is also very social and has no issue on that side.
He is also bored and not confortable around his peers. He can't relate to most of them because their interests are just not his.

The best thing I have done is to send him to do some football when he was the age of the OP's ds. He actually enjoyed it (he is very outdoorsy anyway) and had that ONE thing he could do with children his age at playtime.

There are so many preconceived ideas about 'bright people' on this thread. It's unreal.

Some very snotty responses here. Where do people suppose we get our scientists and inventors from? They're not all "serial killers" FGS. What a nobbish thing to say.

OP he does sound very bright, but Early Years education is about socialising as well as learning how to do the academic stuff. It may also be that he is an early starter and his progress starts to level off a bit as he matures.

Give it a go and see how he gets on.

Deffo IQ testing. It will open doors for you if he needs it. Work on the social side of school aswell. My brother had I very high IQ and was pushed and did very well. He used uni to "find himself" and make friends let his hair down. He would of done better if all that freedom hadn't been a revelation to him.

I also want to ask posters whose child was looking very advance for their age at 4yo why do they think they haven't carried on with that?

I mean the little girl who isn't doing much better than everyone else in maths now in Y3. Is it because actually she is just average or is it because schools are notoriously bad at teaching maths to girls and in particular are very good at teaching them that maths arent for girls??
Is the little girl who was playing with her peers and doing everything the nursery teacher was telling her, like everyone else, doing so because that was her or because of the social pressure for girls to be social, to fit in (that also means aligning yourself to the others btw, even if this means lowering yourself down) etc...?

I'm also astonished to see that, for everyone, it looks obvious that to become a national level sportsman, you need to make a lot of effort and train a lot (see the number of 9~10yo who train 8 hours a week swimming for example). But somehow when it comes to academics stuff, they should just be able to pick it and reinvent everything all on their own, wo no formal input at all. Oh and if they are intelligent, they will be able to show for it later on in life anyway. Yep because to be an swimmer at 20yo, you don't need to start training at 10yo.... (or gymnastics etc etc). Same with music too.
A high IQ is a sign of potential just as some people have some athletic abilities. Don't use them and you will loose a lot of them. Mess around with it and teach the child they have no abilities anyway and you are loosing preciouspotencial.

So, having been through gifted and talented programmes myself back in the day and having a child who could have fit the description of yours, I would advise you very strongly to teach yours the value of hard work, the importance of learning to organise himself, and the value of strong social skills. Think about how to communicate this and foster good behaviours in this area. It's is not all about the academics - there will come a time when your DC finds something hard and they need to be able to cope with that. It is often the other skills I mention that make a difference between success and failure THROUGH LIFE.

Socialising can be done in other situations than a school.
It depends how good the school is tbh, as to whether it's worthwhile going in those first couple of years.
I don't know if lining up, sitting cross legged on a mat etc, is important structure/rule following or if it's just institutionalising them at a very young age. Not all children fit into the mold.
I prefer structured learning starting at 7 personally. But if you do send him, you can always keep giving him lots of input at home.

I agree with the huge advantage socially to have sibblings too!!

It helped dc1 and dc2 a lot for different reasons. But they have been each others socail 'circle' for a long time.

I think a lot of schools are appalling at engaging with brighter children. My brother and I were bored to tears at school and frankly feeling bored does nothing at all to encourage socialising - you just want to leave and do something more interesting with people on your wavelength.

My children are similar so they went to a Montessori school where children were defined by interests and abilities, not age. They could move freely around the school in mixed age groups so age became irrelevant. They are now at a small rural primary where age limitations are still fluid - there are 3 year groups to a class and children are shifted without stigma depending on their strengths where appropriate - obviously this government and its micromanagement does its best to screw that up despite the obvious benefits. They also flexi school so have 2 days at home where they can really pursue their own interests at their own pace. It means the 'school' day usually extends until bedtime because they are in charge of their own time, doing stuff they enjoy too much to stop. The oldest is now at high school - her first year - and finally feels she has a likeminded group of friends. She made friends before and had fun but was always more mature/sophisticated in her interests than any of them.

It is utter nonsense to suggest that socialising comes from school, completely false. It comes from any interactions at all - not enclosed in an age-defined classroom. I know loads of home schooled children who are confident, mature kids used to talking to people of all ages, good at cooperating, socially aware, caring - all that stuff. Not suggesting you home school, just that this idea of school being necessary for 'social skills' is ridiculous. It happens at home, on the bus, in a library, a supermarket, in the street, at the swimming pool...if your son is not happy at school no wonder he's not socialising. Children don't compartmentalise...'oh, I'm bored but I'll do some socialising until I get to go home and do something more interesting'. It might be there is another child there more on his wavelength but they haven't found each other yet - you might have to do some observing of the others and be outgoing yourself, chatting in the playground to see if anyone fancies coming round to play. Maybe save the fish dissection for the second visit though....

The issue with input at home is that they are still learning stuff that others don't know and it makes school getting more and more boring.
dc1 is REFUSING to learn new stuff/doing stuff at home because of that. (not that we have done anything with him bar one or two times when he was trying to do very complex things with the tools the school had given him and that weren't adapted. Think adding numbers such 145 789+845 255 by doing line addition, not column addition).
But seen that they didn't do that for another two years (and when through several different systems wo allowing him to use the 'more complex' one he had mastered by himself) that didn't help either tbh...

I was in a very similar situation, FlyingScotsman, found it difficult to relate to my peers because my interests were not theirs.

Sadly, I don't think my parents really helped here: feeling a little lost themselves in the local community, they did rather encourage the idea that we were different and that this feeling of apartness was inextricably linked to all the positive sides of our intellectual curiosity, as if somehow my proficiency in Ancient Greek (which was a positive thing in itself) meant I couldn't possibly bond with my classmates over a new game or an evening out. To put it briefly, I was an intellectual snob. My life could have been richer instead of narrower, and I would certainly have done better in my very specialised form of academe if I had been more generally open and socially confident.

Of course you can only do so much as a parent, you can't change somebody's personality. But I have tried from the start to help dd develop social skills and encouraged her to find common ground with a wider range of people, basically tried to encourage her to be more interested in more things and people than I was as a young child/adolescent. I have tried to gently treat her tricks to manage when you feel socially uncomfortable or out of it. I have tried to show her that intellectual learning is one part of a whole range of exciting things you can learn and enjoy in life, that there isn't a fixed hierarchy of worthwhile things and that overlap is absolutely permissible. I think it has made her happier and better able to profit from the gifts she has.