To be concerned about my intelligent child at school

[Moomoomango]

This is not a boasting post before I get accused! I am struggling with his intelligence not basking in parental glory!

My son is 4 and due to start school in September. He started talking at 8 months, and has never stopped. He is intelligent and head strong, the last 2 days he started to ask about house numbers - within about 10 minutes he had learnt how to recognise numbers up to 100. I've never tried to teach him more than 10 but I was amazed how quickly he absorbed the information. He is really into science and loves discussing ideas such as gravity, electricity, marine life (a particular passion). He loves doing experiments and will quite often talk about gasses such as carbon dioxide. He loves to dissect fish (one of his fave things to do is buy a fish at fish counter) or garden insects to inspect their insides etc. He will quite confidently explain the anatomy of a fish. I am by no means a pushy parent I just answer his questions and follow his lead.

He is thoroughly bored at pre school, the activities as much more directed at younger children, I feel. I went in today and he was just sat twiddling an abacus. He tells me it's boring and he hates it. Pre school say hes withdrawn and not engaged.

I was speaking to a ta friend of mine who said foundation is basically an extension of pre school, lots of play etc. I'm really worried he will become withdrawn from school if it's not stimulating him. I want him to enjoy school and feel happy and confident. Aibu to be concerned? Is foundation very basic in terms of learning? Or will they support very intelligent children? I'm purposefully holding him back from learning to read so that school can inspire him in that way but to be honest he's so close it's painful!

I just want my child to be supported to be who he is.

My daughter is a bit like that could read in nursery before reception asks quite profound questions as well. She is great at maths in year two and can add 3 digit numbers mentally. We are lucky in her school that they push her academically as well as support her socially as socially she struggles a bit but has come along nicely with support. For you I think the thing is to work with him academically at home as well as push him as if he is bored he will be miserable as well as encourage play dates and other social skills . Unfortunately really bright kids some times have a hard time and when you said he stutters sometimes my dd had that and her teacher gave her some advice to take a deep breath before she speaks sort of letting her brain catch up with her mouth. But he will be fine

I have 4 children, some of whom are very clever and the school recognises these and fast tracks them where appropriate (state school).
In my view, developmental and social skills are more important for their wellbeing and learned in this pre-school environment - especially where there are no siblings.

What Jag1980 said - if a child is bored in an unstructured play based setting (as long as there are some resources they could use in any way they choose, and including books and pencils and paper and natural materials) that is not proof they are a genius who needs a structured curriculum, it is an indication of an area of weakness - they need to learn how to entertain themselves or to improve their social skills or need help developing a bit of creativity or in using their imagination or taking the initiative - they need to learn to be a self starter rather than an empty vessel utterly dependant on outside input.

This is a perfect opportunity for you to get down to his level, look him in the eye and when you have his attention, tell him calmly and slowly that he is going to have to wait.

Nipping bossy, demanding behaviour in the bud is important because he will struggle socially if he has to have his way all the time and is allowed to domineer and ride roughshod over other people's plans/choices/ideas.

It is never too early to teach kindness, thoughtfulness and helpfulness in my opinion. It is scary when parents cowtow to their child's every whim and desire while putting their own needs and desires on the backburner.

Self entitled, brattish, selfish, thoughtless, unkind children are the results of parents who put academic/sporting/or other talents first and who don't bother with the basics which is learning kindness and thoughtfulness to others.

My DS was reading and recognising 2-digit numbers on doors from his pushchair, so we'll before 3 (he left his pushchair at 2.5 to make way for baby DD). Like your son, he struggled socially though.
Reception is brilliant for people like your son because they have enough staff to do almost individualised learning. There is lots of scope for following your son's interests too...at my children's school we were encouraged to stick post-it notes up on a display about our kids' interests...which they would try to weave into the curriculum as and when possible. My son came in reading at stage 8 already on ORT but wasn't very emotionally mature and was still 4, so was given a mix of these and also levelled story books and books from other schemes. He did fine.
Keep an eye on his social development, but sure school will too as its a bit part of the curriculum too.

My eldest daughter is a bit like this. Loves exploring ideas...was less keen on the social side of things and playing with others. I think that one of the reasons children like her focus so heavily on learning and exploring ideas is that it's easier to cope with, and less confusing/frightening, than navigating the messy nature of social relationships.

You are worried that your son is bored and unstimulated...I would say that this is not what you should be concerned about. The ability to play, and play with other children is crucial. It's a key skill, and far harder to master than intellectual learning.

I would just talk to him and encourage him to play with others. You definitely don't need to get stressed about it. He will be frustrated when playing with other children that don't have the same level of intelligence as him but accepting others for who they are is an essential life skill. I would just focus on allowing him to enjoy the things he likes at a higher level at home with you. Explain to him how everyone is different and it's really important to join in with others and how it can make others feel if he rejects their games, etc. If he is very intelligent then you should be able to explain this to him and you will be doing him a big favour in the future. Social understanding and acceptance can be hard for those who are intelligent but have always been put on a pedestal and haven't beeen pushed to interact properly. He will find it hard but he'll find it harder to learn when he's 20 and goes to work in the big wide world with a mix of people.

Keep going and don't worry OP. Enjoy learning things with him outside of school. You will get to have a lot of fun talking him places and doing fun things with him.

No, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. I think you're absolutely right to think about whether your child is reaching his potential. I wouldn't leave it completely up to the school to meet your child's needs. That said, soft skills are really important for success at school and beyond.

How about considering an independent school if that's an option, or taking your child to after school/weekend science clubs (I saw a few advertised online a while back)?

A lot of these responses miss the point. He's already disengaging. If he's really intelligent, he won't find it easy to make friends and socialise with children who don't understand as much as he does. Get him assessed. If he's really bright, he'll need that to be acknowledged otherwise you'll just be fobbed off with these kinds of attitudes and he'll grow frustrated. You are right to want to avoid that. He'll need help to settle like any other child with an unusual profile. Best of luck!

There are a lot of snide posts on this thread, apparently you cannot ask for support if your child is very clever.

Despite all those insisting that your boy sounds absolutely average, I would say he sounds very bright indeed and also as though he feels rather unhappy at preschool which is sad. I can understand why you feel worried about how he will get on at school. One of my children was put into extension learning from day one at school and I don't think that she was anywhere near as clever as your boy. For example, I don't recall that she could read before going to school. However, she has consistently attained results in the top one per cent so by comparison (v unscientific I know) absolutely it could be a struggle for your son to feel comfortable at school.

The truth is that it can be quite lonely being very clever as most people are not. And as you have experienced in here, there are many people who have an ugly attitude to high achievers.

I don't think you need to be concerned about his social skills. If he can engage in conversation, keep his hands to himself, take turns and in general show respect for others, he is doing very nicely.

I think just see how he goes at school, and keep encouraging him to explore his interests at home. Having a kind and caring mother like you will take him a long way.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what has been said, I have two sons who are in the top .05 % on intelligence tests and two others who are averagely bright.i pushed no 1 son and 'supported him but it was a mistake. I read Carol Dweck - mindset. I only praise no 3son for hard work. He got level 5a in year 3 for writing, I asked if he had tried his hardest and he said no, so I said it wasn't good enough. He chooses to work hard, he is now 13 and year 9 and doing really well.
In year R, he really struggled he was already reading and writing and wanted the exams that the older boys were doing. It got to the point where I was being told he was aspergers (I think he probably is, no problem with that) but he hated school, it got worse in year 1 and the only way to make him happy was to move to year 2. I found some brilliant teachers in an inclusive school where he was not considered in need of any diagnosis, he started making friends and was happy. When he went to 2ndary school at 10, year7 was great and he was a novelty for the teachers, but they got bored of the hard work with him. He started lashing out and they asked me to get a diagnosis of ASD. We looked around at schools again looked at private but he challenges stupidity and a lot of private schools expect obedience as no1 priority. Found a brilliant state comprehensive boys school saw the SEN and head they took one look and said hmmm not ASD to us, he's a normal very bright boy. He's relearning his social skills etc. I have never pushed him, if he asks for a book he gets it, usually physics.
Sorry for the essay, but I suggest you read up about bright kids, read Carol Dweck, find some external clubs and talk to his teachers about how he will be challenged in reception, what are the opportunities higher up the school. Get him learning an instrument, violin or piano and above all make sure school are meeting his social needs.

Yes. You are right to be considering your child's abilities & how to best support him (and his teachers) at school. My son is now at Secondary School and finally things are a little easier (though by no means perfect); his primary years were a nightmare & those 'soft skills' were hampered by the fact he was so bored and disengaged/tortured by the slow pace & narrow focus. Teachers did not understand how to best support him with a curriculum that is so tight & 'tick box'. I struggled practically every day to get him to School.
In his 3rd year at Primary School they kept sending him off to diagnose him with a disorder of one kind or another - It was at this point I sent him for testing with an Educational Psychologist. Despite NOT having a genius IQ or demonstrating his ability at School (aside from trying to bring his love of Science & IT in to basic lessons) he did score very highly in her tests - clearly demonstrating that he could perform years above his age group & that he had the vocabulary of a 16.10 year old. Admittedly there were two areas he scored below his age too. Apparently this is pretty normal asynchronous development. As a single, full time working mother, I found there was not much I could change to support him. I did move his primary school & got him into one that helped him broaden his interests (music, forest school) which was great & his friendships did a little better here. I also encouraged activities outside school. Primary School did help him start dealing with how others reacted to his way of thinking & that too is no bad thing.
I would highly recommend you take advice from www.potentialplusuk.org/index.php
They can help you far more than my story can! I would recommend a report by an educational psychologist (a good one). This is not cheap but is worth its weight in gold. In my experience the first primary school did not receive the report well or utilise any advice from it - my son was not demonstrating his abilities in their classroom & they behaved as though they were threatened by the report itself. So again, take advice from the professionals as to how, or whether to share.
My son's favourite learning period so far was 6 months prior to Primary. I homeschooled him & he attended nursery. We did project work that allowed him to tie in his passions to the subjects we studied - this way I managed to enjoy every aspect of the learning; he has been desperate for that style of education ever since. Home schooling has come a long way & social groups of homeschooled children exist - with many learning packages online & with groups forming. This could be an idea too.
Good luck!! PM me if you have any questions.

So much resentment going on here.

Why not join a local group for gifted children and start saving for a university education by the time he's 10. Maybe he could build his own vivarium and leave the dissecting of live insects to the training hospitals ?

There are a lot of snide posts on this thread

The truth is that it can be quite lonely being very clever as most people are not. And as you have experienced in here, there are many people who have an ugly attitude to high achievers

Was the thread just not kicking off enough for you?

Where on earth are all these 'snide comments'?

The OP is getting a calm, friendly and rational cross-section of opinions, which I assume is what she looking for.

Our first grandchild was like that.
He was discussing dinosaurs using their correct Latin names by the time he was 4.
Once, at an exhibition, the lady on duty was trying to sell him a plastic toy which she said was a Pterodactyl. He took one look and said " No it's not, it's a rhamphorhynchus - you can tell by it's tail ". I could hardly keep a straight face.
By the time he was 8 he had read all the books available at his primary school and his teachers were borrowing ones meant for much older pupils. When his teachers set lessons and homework they had to set special tasks for him as he had done all he was supposed to do long before he was due to go up to high school.
He's done really well at school and wants to do I.T. ( what else ? ) at university. He had written and put on-line his own gaming website by the age of 10.
But we never lost sight of the fact he was still a little boy who had to be allowed little boy things like his collection of toy tractors .
Your son will come into his own at school - encourage him and ensure they do the best for him. Don't let lefty teachers and their obsession with comprehensive education ( there's an oxymoron for you ) keep him down - make sure he is challenged to do his best and fulfill his potential.

Funnily enough,I have just left a meeting with the head of my 5 year old's school where we talked about the exact same concerns as you have voiced. He is in Reception,very able (never say 'gifted',it really pisses them off!) and not being challenged or engaged by his school setting. As a result,his social skills are suffering (in spite of all the usual sand pit,mud kitchen activities that one would expect in EYFS) and I'm hoping that after yet another discussion with the head,that we will get the help that he needs to meet his increasing academic abilities and his inversely proportional social needs. It feels like only the start of a,sadly,long journey. Sorry to be the voice of doom but I think you are right to be giving credence to this now so that if it does become an issue when he starts school you are in a position to nip it in the bud or,at least,ask the pertinent questions of the right people. Don't leave it too long or allow yourself to be fobbed off with usual platitudes and rhetoric. Sadly,the outcome of these situations comes down,largely,to two criteria-how proactive you are as a parent and the school your son ends up attending. Good luck.

How on earth are people suggesting that this child's intelligence is average?I would however have him assessed as the social skills side of things would be concerning me.

Yes, you are right to be concerned - it shows you care and you are aware of your child's development. I am not sure what you want MN to suggest, however. As has been posted numerous times here, education is more than academic learning (though you'd never guess that, listening to some people) - it's also about making friends, playing, dreaming, falling over, loving, hating, the list is endless.

You say "This is not a boasting post before I get accused" - and then go on to list all your DS's strengths! Most schools have a Gifted and Talented strategy and/or staff able to address this issue. But schools and parents seem to want to devote an inordinate amount of time to this, and if I had a pound for every time I have heard a parent say "My child is being dragged down by the class she/he's in", I would be rich by now. If you really are that concerned and can afford it, send him to a private school, then he can perhaps swim with likeminded fishes. Personally, I wouldn't, but you're not me.

Why do I never read postings or hear from parents saying "my child isn't all that" or "my child is falling behind at school, what can I do?"

www.earlyyearscareers.com/eyc/learning-and-development/play-based-learning-young-children/

I'd have a read at this article. Play is the best way for young children to learn, as it allows them to explore, and develop so many skills. Many children have specific interests ( or " specialist subjects"! ) and their knowledge of these can seem very impressive.
I'd worry more about a child who was withdrawn in a group setting, and would want to foster a love of learning by making it fun.

Oh yes - take a look at books by Joan Freeman; around children with High Learning Potential.

It's not being remotely unreasonable or pushy to want to do your best to make sure your child doesn't become turned off from school/education. Having worked in many, can assure you schools vary vastly - some offer amazing experiences for reception , and whilst the "basics" might bore your son, there will be things to discover, explore, enjoy , new relationships and social learning, and some dedicated teachers who will meet him at the level he is at (despite horrendous pressures). Others will be struggling with tricky intakes, bigger issues, and bowed under the cosh of phonics assessments and all the other stuff that schools have to go through just to tick boxes and will realistically struggle to accommodate children outside the median very well. If you have choices, please go and look at local schools, it may reassure you- or it may mean you want/need to consider other options such as montessori (where children can learn with different age groups) ; going up a year (not a fan of that, but I know it works for some). As other posters have said, it will also help if you can realistically assess what are his strengths AND corresponding weaknesses - will make you more likely to be listened to if and when you need to speak to schools. Finally, please, please do get in touch with Potential Plus a charity/organisation for children with "high learning potential" (gifted in old speak) who will be able to provide relevant support/information etc.
Good luck!

Do you know what school you are sending him to? Have you read the ofsted report? There might be something in there about how well they adjust the teaching to the individual abilities of the child. He sound very bright to me (compared to my extremely lovely but definately average IQ 5 year old!).
I think I would keep a close eye on him, and if he does express boredom, as others have said, perhaps try and shift his focus to the non-academic aspects, and perhaps discuss with the teachers how he can be challenged in other ways.

Its not snide or resentful to point out that a child being unable to play (alone and with other children) and entertain themselves in an unstructured environment is a problem.

My DC1 could recognise all her letters before she was 2 but it was much more important that she enjoyed playing with other children and much more of a concern that she could not cope without constant input, never played alone.

All children have strengths and weaknesses - great to be bright but there are clearly massive gaps in his "soft skills"

It seems to be a badge of honour to claim your child is bored unless they are receiving constant structured input (we all know people like this in RL as well as on MN) and this is so short sighted! Being bored once forced to follow an easy curriculum without differentiation is a problem - but where the setting provides lots of unstructured time the child is not being forced to sit through basic number bonds when they are capable of algebra - they are simply struggling due to lack of social skills, creativity, imagination and independent learning skills.

Step away from the helicopter, lady. The IQ will get him into the Ivy League, the social skills that start off with water play and sand corner are what will help him translate IQ points into career success.

Putting that on a postcard and posting it through the letter box of about 15 people I know. Love it.

I was like your son. One teacher suggested I be tested for a G&T group. Another one said, "She's not gifted, she's just loud." Mum went with the second advice. Best. Decision. Ever.