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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to wonder what Brighton council are playing at asking 3 and 4 year olds their gender?

165 replies

SwearyKnickers · 20/04/2016 21:44

Ds 4 identifies as a sausage. Although he sometimes goes by squish and cuddlemonkey. He hasn't sorted his pronouns yet. We better get on with it.. he's starting school in Sept...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-36092812

OP posts:
AskBasil · 20/04/2016 23:24

"I really want to know how the school intend to deal with the child. Will they be treating them differently? Oh hes a girl now. Bound to be shit at math."

So true.

WhirlwindHugs · 20/04/2016 23:28

Also read this with my mouth open - my 2 preschoolers identify mostly as dog, dinosaur, 1yo baby of siblings gender and cat...

They are known of those things. They're playing ffs!

WilLiAmHerschel · 20/04/2016 23:28

There is no such thing as a 'cis' child.

WhirlwindHugs · 20/04/2016 23:29

*none of those...

SwearyKnickers · 20/04/2016 23:29

Also, Brighton council haven't received any complaints. The only complaint was sent to the Sun, which proceeded to put it on their front page!

It was an annoyed parent actually and she has some quite good points. The article was broken on www.brightonandhovenews.org/2016/04/19/brighton-and-hove-schools-ask-three-year-olds-what-gender-if-any-they-identify-with/

The Sun (and every other paper) stole it the next day.

OP posts:
WhirlwindHugs · 20/04/2016 23:33

Good letter.

cleaty · 20/04/2016 23:34

Lots of kids say they are really the opposite sex at this age, and grow out of it. It is a normal stage of development for some kids. There are lots of adults who say time and time again, this was them as a child. Not that they wanted to be, but that they thought they were. But nobody labelled them trans. They just left them to be kids.

Alisvolatpropiis · 20/04/2016 23:35

Also have the defenders forgotten that gender dysphoria is a mental illness akin to body dysmorphia?

cleaty · 20/04/2016 23:38

I think in 20 years time we are going to see a huge backlash as these kids grow up to be adults, and realise they were encouraged along a particular path that was not in their best interests.

Therealyellowwiggle · 20/04/2016 23:43

I hope there's a box for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, as my 3 year old is one of those.

VertigoNun · 20/04/2016 23:48

It does make you wonder about future litigation against parents, schools and Tavistock NHS trust.

My client is distressed that they lost their fertility, the chance to live in their biological body.

Parents pointing to the NHS, NHS pointing to schools and schools pointing to parents. The privatised NHS trust and Academy chains will have such great legal representation the child will sue the parents.

PandasRock · 20/04/2016 23:58

My 3 year old told me today that when he grows up he wants to be a tiger. And then when he grows up for the second time, he wants to be a dinosaur. And when he grows up for the third time, he is going to be an astronaut.

And after that, he would like to be a girl who likes the colour orange.

3 year olds are not known for their grip on reality. I am no more likely to take the last thing he told me as the gospel as any of the first 3... I do not seriously think he wants to be (or will attempt to become) a tiger or a dinosaur. He may or may not become an astronaut. He cannot ever become a girl, no matter whether he is actually serious in this one or not (he has been saying it for a few weeks - initially it was a reaction to someone telling him that she he went to school he would have to stop playing with pink stuff and princesses alert and play football with he boys. He has no notion of what football is, and would prefer to play with the pink stuff and princesses. So he solved it the way he knew how - he said he would be a girl instead. I talked it through with him, and reinforced that boys and girls can like pink, just as boys and girls can play football. And that not all girls like pink anyway, some (like, ooh, umm, his sisters?!) like other colours. And the result of that talk is that he is now going to be a girl who likes orange (no idea why orange, but it'll no doubt change next week anyway)).

If his school start taking notes in sort ember when he starts, and start marking him down as gender confused or some such nonsense I will be having words. He is just trying to work out the (frankly, bonkers) rules that society currently tries to impose on girls and boys.

StepAwayFromTheThesaurus · 21/04/2016 00:00

I think this policy will do a great deal of harm to large numbers of children and society as a whole.

You know how the trans lobby always like to tell anyone who disagrees with them that 'they'll be on the wrong side of history'? I suspect this may be the 2016 equivalent of stuff like sending unmarried mothers away and taking their babies off them or imprisoning people with leprosy in colonies they were stuck in for life, or all sorts of thing that were Very Bad Ideas.

BackInTheRealWorld · 21/04/2016 00:03

This reply has been deleted

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BombadierFritz · 21/04/2016 00:06

I also think this will be looked back on in horror by future generations. Adults should be free to do what they want wrt surgery/possibly also hormones (although the hassle i have getting hrt is another story) but i see these kids growing up and suing

BombadierFritz · 21/04/2016 00:08

I would be interested to know how many of us posting did not identify with the stereotype attached to our biological sex as children
I didnt
I think that is why i see it as more concerning than perhaps a woman who always 'fitted' the girl stereotype might. Thats just a theory

BombadierFritz · 21/04/2016 00:10

backintherealworld but most of us have had kids who thought they were the opposite sex - its on this thread. Its just that its almost always a normal stage of childhood development.
Its also more common with autism spectrum - i've seen that in my own family. I just think its another aspect of autism in that case

SwearyKnickers · 21/04/2016 00:13

If it doesn't affect you why not shut the fuck up and educate yourselves you horrible ignorant cunts.

Well actually, it does affect all of us horrible ignorant cunts. Because every time a trans activist says they knew they were a woman because they liked tea parties and feeling "feminine" it knocks all of us back to the 50's pinny and all.

It affects my children because it tells my daughter that what makes a woman is a fucking dress. And should she not fit in that role, she's a man. It is self fulfilling prophesy. Then it tells children they need to make big life decisions and take pills and call themselves by a different name..and it tells them it will make them feel better..and when that doesn't work..they they do cut themselves.

OP posts:
VertigoNun · 21/04/2016 00:14

Is that type of communication style part of the therapy they hand out at Tavistock?

corythatwas · 21/04/2016 00:14

BackInThe Real, the thought that worries most posters on this thread is that this decision will affect cis children (particularly gay ones) by encouraging them to box themselves into an identity at an age where they do not fully understand the concepts of gender and sex.

Personally, I would never have asked my 3yo what ethnic group she identified with, or what religion she belonged to, because she was just too little; in fact, I wouldn't have asked her anything of more consequence than "would you like to wear the green top or red top"?

Without wishing to minimise the problem, how often do you think self harming due to feeling trapped in the wrong body starts as early as 3?

BombadierFritz · 21/04/2016 00:15

My daughter, aspie, came home recently all confused as shed learnt that girls who like boy stuff are boys. She likes boy stuff therefore is she a boy
I cant tell you how depressed this reinforcement of sex steteotypes is

SwearyKnickers · 21/04/2016 00:17

I absolutely could refer to myself as agender. My feelings about my own gender completely fit the definition. I'd still have a fanny though. I'd still pee sitting down and I'd still be able to get pregnant. So nothing would change except that I could call myself a fancy new word and be take in as LGBTQ and people would have to respect my 'trauma' and 'oppression' as trans.

OP posts:
BombadierFritz · 21/04/2016 00:17

Then theres my older sister, also aspie, being told she must be trans by transpeople, as she is a plumber with short hair

Sigh

corythatwas · 21/04/2016 00:18

I was another one who felt like a boy and wanted to be a boy for the first 4 or 5 years of my life. So I think I have a perfect right to say that I am glad nobody encouraged me to make any long-lasting decisions about that.

BombadierFritz · 21/04/2016 00:20

Me too swearyknickers
The problem of course is the rest of the world oppresses us on our biology so its not a great opt out unless you grow facial hair and leg it to the mens camp, leaving the rest of the female population behind in the ghetto
Neoliberalism in action

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