To be angry, and even a little bewildered on how to tackle this with the school?

[MaddyHatter]

DS has SN.. he has Autism, ADHD, Sensory Processing Disorder and Dyspraxia.... it makes for some very complex needs, a big one of which he CANNOT process emotion or self regulate and will go into a meltdown very suddenly.

One of the outcomes of him getting upset and frustrated and having a meltdown is that he lashes out during them, and can hurt the people near him. The school are aware of this, there are strategies in place to help him try to manage his feelings.

One of these strategies is the provision and freedom to go to a room called the Calm room, which is painted with calming colours and has cushions and bean bags...etc.

There was an incident today. Ds isnt having a good week and there is a piece of work he is flat refusing to do, and they keep trying to make him. Today they tried again and he began to get upset. The Learning Mentor tried to get him to go to her classroom to calm down, but his auditory processing issues meant he didn't understand and he thought she was going to try and make him do this work, and he lashed out.

He has been suspended, which i nominally support, even if i'm not happy, as in my eyes they're punishing him for part of his disability..

However, i asked DS why if he was getting angry, didn't he ask to use the Calm room (its right opposite his classroom) and he told me he wasnt allowed in there because some of the yr6 girls were using it as a PE changing room.

WTF?!?!

Now.. i appreciate at 10/11yo the girls may not wish to change in the classroom with the boys, and an alternative should be provided... but WHY THE FUCK are the school letting them use THE CALM ROOM which is there for children like my son to use as and when they need it?

I am so fucking angry... we spent AGES getting it through to him that he could remove himself from a situation and go to that room if he felt the need to help prevent him going into meltdown, and now, he has to check if its being used as a fucking changing room and isn't allowed in there if the girls belongings are... and has now ended up having a violent meltdown and hit a teacher and got suspended.

I just don't know how to tackle this or even where to start.

"you still have the problem of whether it's appropriate to put the bright child with brittle bones in with the bright child with a tendency to lash out unpredictably"

Who's ideas are you misrepresenting there? However, the aggressor should be kept away from the child with brittle bones. Are you arguing against that?

Potatoes, does that mean we need two special schools, one for the bright vulnerable children and one for the bright children whose disabilities lead to a tendency to violence? Or do we still put them together and keep the "aggressors" (very loaded term!) away? If so, why can't they be in a mainstream school with the same safety precautions put in place?

Of course, what you could do is put provision in place so that the SEN of the "aggressive" child are met with the result that he no longer becomes stressed and panicked and doesn't lash out. You could maybe put in place strategies to minimise or prevent meltdowns, and provide him with a calm room, that being a hell of a lot cheaper than having special schools for every category of child with SEN all over the country.

10 minutes for it to be used as a changing room is fair

He's not allowed in the calm room if the girls' belongings are in there. That means that he is potentially kept out of the room for the duration of the PE lesson, and indeed possibly for much more time if this is happening for a number of PE lessons throughout the school. And if it isn't happening for other PE lessons, you have to ask why the girls can't use whatever changing facilities are provided to the other pupils.

We make assumptions based on past experience. It's how we learn!

I don't know any children with cerebral palsy, but I knew that not all children with CP are in wheelchairs. Perhaps the difficulty with your posts is that you are making assumptions rather than taking steps to inform yourself?

Tax avoidance (besides a few infamous multi-naitionals) is a drop in the ocean

According to independent auditors appointed by the government, we lose £16 billion a year to tax evasion. The total difference between the tax that should be paid per year and the amount actually received is £34 billion. That's a hell of a big drop in the ocean.

It is rather noticeable, potatoes, that you've been highly selective in the comments you have chosen to respond to, and that there are rather a lot of points against your arguments that you have chosen to gloss over.

herecomethepotatoes et al, thankfully Parliament is listening to sense and experience, even if you're not.

www.ipsea.org.uk/news/2016/house-of-lords-select-committee-on-the-equality-act-2010-update

To exclude as a result of a tendency towards violence as a consequence of disability, is unlawful.

OP I hope your HT reads this too.

Yes, potatoes, I agree that any parent can get "grabby" when it comes to their children. It doesn't matter if the child is SEN, physically disabled, a "regular kid" who they think it being overlooked, or a G&T kid who they think is being let down.

More money in the system would help some, but, of course, so would empathy, perspective and self control!

I don't get why they would spend all that money on a room designed to stop a child having a meltdown and then use it to let kids get changed which basically resulted in a teacher getting hit in the face.

This. Completely this. I'm so sorry op, your son has a plan (had) and he must have the option to following at all times if he's to be expected to remain calm and regulated. This is the action plan for any disregulaton at the moment, and he knows the deal.

He is not able to self regulate. They've put the transactional support in to facilitate the self regulation of his behaviour. The room is part of this.

They broke the deal. Girls changing cannot evacuate in a hurry - fair enough, it might be used occasionally for other things but all must scarper for your son. So, how can he be expected to keep his side of the deal?

If you don't get this, you don't get ASD and complex needs.

Sorry, I'm pretty cross on your behalf.

Bearly, unfortunately it's not yet unlawful to exclude as a result of a tendency towards violence which is caused by a disability, but let's hope the government act on that Select Committee report very quickly and make it so.

Ds has always been quite severely bullied, both physically punched, kicked, strangled, hit with sticks etc. And mentally don't want to sit next him, name calling etc. Since he started school ALWAYS by 'normal' kids!

It's clear to see why now, I know where the children get it from

And actually, to be clear to all and send the correct message, it should NEVER be used for anything else.

In my setting, staff would get this enough to know a clam room needs to be available at the drop of a hat. We have several. But we are all trained to support children with these needs. In a mainstream setting I would ring fence it so there is never any confusion.

You are making me think of a boy at our primary, Bearlyknitted.

He was adopted and had severe emotional trauma. He had been at the school since reception and had made huge progress, keeping up academically, participating in the sports, and flourishing in music, but still could be impulsive and lash out, particularly if provoked. A group of boys had been teasing him for a while and he lunged at them in the classroom while it was being lead by a student teacher, unfortunately the main teacher had stepped out. It was the middle of year 6 and he was expelled. His other siblings had all gone to this school, his parents had tirelessly supported the PTA and the local church. It was really sad. I think the headteacher was between a rock and a hard place because he had a history of incidents and the other parents demanded a safe environment for their children. It's a really tough one. My sympathy lies with the boy and his family, I've known them since preschool days and his parents are saints. On the other hand, I can see that if a school cannot handle the situation, then other children have to be safe. It's no good saying that the school ought to be able to manage, we have to work with the people we have and with the resources that they have.

Again more money for more staff, and more staff training would go a long way imho.

I struggle to care what you think as I have been inquisitive, respectful and have thought before posting. I clearly have different opinions to some other posters but that neither means I'm wrong nor that you can be rude about them.

You have been strident, aggressive, dismissive and patronising by turns, in actuality. And you are posting at length on a subject about which you know nothing at all, to people who know a great deal, and you freely admit as much - and yet you also claim that your views are not as valid, but more so.

By your own admission, your child attends an independent school where you are in sublime ignorance of the provisions made for SEN amongst his peers - sorry, sorry, "there are no children with SEN" because the school are smart enough not to tell other parents anything to the contrary, because the ignorant bigots amongst them would tantrum accordingly.

You do not have a disabled child. You do not know anything about provision made for disabled children. You are not involved in any capacity, personal or professional, with the provision for children with SEN. You are in a thread populated by people with considerable experience - in my case, I have an autistic sibling and an autistic child, so I know vastly more than you could ever imagine learning - yet you continually insist that your views are as valid and you don't need either experience or education to understand a topic better than those with both. Anyone who questions that is RUDE RUDE RUDE.

Let me explain this in a way that may be simple enough for you to understand: if you develop a brain tumour, who would you want to operate? Someone who has never met anyone with a brain tumour, far less learned anything about the physiology or prognosis? Or a qualified and trained neurosurgeon? Your adorably post-modern claims to the contrary, experience and expertise does, actually, matter when forming opinions with any validity. If you know quite literally nothing about a problem, then your views on how to manage it are worthless. Absolutely worthless.

I don't think she's trolling, either.

I know quite a few people whose autistic children go to indie schools, after a horrendous start in indie preps. And the main problem in the earlier stages was the rage of the parents of neuro-typical children, who felt they were paying a lot of money to send their children privately and that they should not therefore be subjected to sub-human disabled children.

Their kids are delightful when properly managed and are thriving. But many of them are in settings where the other parents just think they are bright, but eccentric - actually they probably think they''re eccentric because they're bright. It's one of those situations where the wholesale ignorance on what autism actually means is useful because they don't fit the Rain Man stereotype, and some private schools have large green sites, small classes, and a gentler approach more suited to autistic kids.

Quite sure plenty of the other parents would kick off if they had the least clue, of course.

I'm also familiar with that particular brand of privately-educated arrogance. There's a born-to-rule mindset that means certain products have the conviction that their views are of immense value and validity, even when underpinned by nothing but ignorance and knee-jerk prejudice. It's quite useful, in other contexts, as it comes across as polish and confidence in areas where there is actual knowledge. It's only when they pontificate gravely on subjects where arse and elbow distinction are hopelessly confused that it really, really grates. As here.

A tutor of mine once commented that what the best public schools really teach best is the art of confident bullshit. She wasn't wrong.

It's practical knowledge of economics as well.

It's also understanding of the range of difficulties that might come under the heading of SEN and the range of reasons that might mean that a child behaves violently in school.

In a private school you can pick and choose your pupils and you could concievably have 20-30 children in a class who have very similar needs. If parents/pupils have a problem with a private school they can like it or lump it, as long as there is demand for places.

That has never been the case in state schools.

*and a gentler approach more suited to autistic kids.

Sorry, should have put "some". We're looking into a couple right now for DS, so it's at the forefront of my mind that that is what he needs. He has it in the state primary stage, thankfully, and it's worked wonders.

It's only when they pontificate gravely on subjects where arse and elbow distinction are hopelessly confused that it really, really grates.

Oh yes - all those private school heads who pontificate on the success of their methods in the telegraph because they managed to pre-select bright, well off children who expect to go to university and then get them into university. Who'd have though it would be possible?

Potatoes, please dont mistake my answering your questions as me not having a problem with you.

I find your viewpoint as abhorrent as the others who felt the need to tell me my DS's issues are down to my parenting.... the thing is, i am, sadly, so used to such ill-informed ignorance from the peanut gallery, that i chose not to take it seriously, and instead ignore it.

i don't mind answering questions because some people have PM'd me thanking me for explaining things and how this thread has helped them understand things they didn't before... and as its Autism Awareness month i am not going to ask it to be moved, or shy away from 'speaking' about it in public.

The fact you stubbornly refuse to accept that your views are inherently prejudiced and disablist is something for you to deal with. Not me.

sleeponeday Excellent post.

I spoke to Ds's TA today to get her version of events, and she confirmed that DS's version was the truth, and that over monday and tuesday he had accessed the Calm Room repeatedly over this piece of work.

I spoke to the HT, and i addressed that fact i am not happy with the attutide of this being a temper tantrum, and once again explained about anxiety and meltdowns.

I also made it clear this event was 3 days in the making and asked him if he thought half a page of writing was worth 3 days of harassing DS to this end point thats resulted in a member of his staff being attacked and a 48hr suspension.

He apparently hadn't been told how long they'd been badgering DS over this play script, and agreed with me that it shouldn't have happened.

I tackled the piece of work itself and explained how it could/should have been adjusted, and asked if the computer wasn't available originally, why couldn't it have been offered subsequently and another piece of written work chosen for an assessment piece. I also again went over the fact DS's disabilities mean he doesn't have the ability or imagination to adapt dialogue into his 'own words'.

He agreed that more work needs to be done on making sure the work is adjuste appropriately. We agee that DS can't get into the habit of refusing to work, but also it can't be pushed to this point either, and we need to work together to find a balance and recognising when a piece of work is becoming a trigger point (like repeatedly having to use the calm room)

I then went into the issue with the Calm room being used as a changing room. I accept it is not for the sole use of DS, that other children will need access, but that if its unavailable, we need ot make it clear to DS there is a plan b, plan c...etc that he is aware of and can access.

I even said if it MUST be used as a changing room, then why block it for a whole hour? take the stuff back to the classrooms!

I came out feeling a little better, the HT really does try, its just a matter of baby steps, he and the SENCo are essentially on a learning curve with DS, and are dancing a fine line between trying to get him his education, and not pushing him into anxiety.

So, we shall see where we go from here. Hopefully the extra funds the EHCP granted can be put towards providing some training for DS's Teachers and we continue moving forward.

Maddy well done, sounds like progress

On the changing room: they CANNOT argue that it's the only place for the girls to change, because it used to be a cupboard!

Oh yes Maddy make sure it's written and specified in ECHP.

Unfortunately schools can pick and choose what recommendations they do/don't follow unless it's legally binding ie ECHP.

You would hope that a good school would just follow recommendations. However that's not always the case. Even when legally binding, some schools choose not to!

RE temper tantrum: we use Extreme emotional reaction / EER.

We actually decided to stop using meltdown to emphasise the emotional element of this