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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To be angry, and even a little bewildered on how to tackle this with the school?

545 replies

MaddyHatter · 20/04/2016 16:04

DS has SN.. he has Autism, ADHD, Sensory Processing Disorder and Dyspraxia.... it makes for some very complex needs, a big one of which he CANNOT process emotion or self regulate and will go into a meltdown very suddenly.

One of the outcomes of him getting upset and frustrated and having a meltdown is that he lashes out during them, and can hurt the people near him. The school are aware of this, there are strategies in place to help him try to manage his feelings.

One of these strategies is the provision and freedom to go to a room called the Calm room, which is painted with calming colours and has cushions and bean bags...etc.

There was an incident today. Ds isnt having a good week and there is a piece of work he is flat refusing to do, and they keep trying to make him. Today they tried again and he began to get upset. The Learning Mentor tried to get him to go to her classroom to calm down, but his auditory processing issues meant he didn't understand and he thought she was going to try and make him do this work, and he lashed out.

He has been suspended, which i nominally support, even if i'm not happy, as in my eyes they're punishing him for part of his disability..

However, i asked DS why if he was getting angry, didn't he ask to use the Calm room (its right opposite his classroom) and he told me he wasnt allowed in there because some of the yr6 girls were using it as a PE changing room.

WTF?!?!

Now.. i appreciate at 10/11yo the girls may not wish to change in the classroom with the boys, and an alternative should be provided... but WHY THE FUCK are the school letting them use THE CALM ROOM which is there for children like my son to use as and when they need it?

I am so fucking angry... we spent AGES getting it through to him that he could remove himself from a situation and go to that room if he felt the need to help prevent him going into meltdown, and now, he has to check if its being used as a fucking changing room and isn't allowed in there if the girls belongings are... and has now ended up having a violent meltdown and hit a teacher and got suspended.

I just don't know how to tackle this or even where to start.

OP posts:
AugustaFinkNottle · 21/04/2016 23:31

School sounds like a right load of cunts, Needs. If they're saying that having him in school for more than three hours a week would be emotional abuse, then they need to tell the LA that they're not using his funding and that the LA needs to arrange either an alternative or home tuition. Seriously, if your friend reported the situation to the LA I don't believe the school would get anywhere with trying to claim emotional abuse. if anyone is guilty of that, they are.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 22/04/2016 00:18

The LA are fully aware of the situation, the SEND lead worker is currently attempting to find a SS placement for the child and on the mean time aranged for another setting to have the child for the remainder of the time whilst a placement is located in a sort of split education arangement (this was aranged in feb) but it's dependant on the school releasing some of the funding to the other placement, so far the school is dragging its heals.

She's usually a very good SEND key worker (I know her quite well) but sadly this is not a unusual situation with disabled children. I could go on my local NAS FB group and see at least 3 posts a week with a story that is much the same (disabled child on hugely reduced timetable) it's also not confined to this area, and neither are the head tilt that's child abuse veiled threats that get made when you try to assert your childs rights.

zzzzz · 22/04/2016 00:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 22/04/2016 00:30

That's exactly what she does, she also takes a ISW to any meetings with the school and as far as I know has only refered to them as a supportive friend and not let on shes a CP social worker

enterthedragon · 22/04/2016 00:56

Needsand Lancelotti, yes it is horrid, especially when you see the distress caused to your own child and all the while you are being told that it is chosen behaviour but you know that's not true so you try and voice your concerns and you are accused of being obstructional. Incident Reports not sent to the LA so the LA don't know what's happening. Positive handling as far as I'm concerned has its place as long as it's used at the correct time in the correct way and for the correct reasons. I was never given any paperwork.

I have never seen a spit hood.

enterthedragon · 22/04/2016 01:22

Maddy that's great news.

herecomethepotatoes · 22/04/2016 03:00

maryz

I struggle to care what you think as I have been inquisitive, respectful and have thought before posting. I clearly have different opinions to some other posters but that neither means I'm wrong nor that you can be rude about them.

As the OP has perfectly politely answered / clarified some things directly in response to my posts, I hope it means she doesn't see me as treating her badly.

barelyknitted good for you.

solidgoldbrass

But do all primary children know the difference between torment and simply act inappropriately for a particular child? I'm not sure I would and would have to base it on perhaps subtle cues from the person I'm interacting with.

Chemistryhunt

I do feel concerned about your belief in "it boils down to my notion of looking after the majority. At times it makes life harder for an individual but sadly, it can't be helped. " This goes against all of the hard won rights covered by the disability discrimination laws we have in place, which are their to make sure even people with additional needs can have their basic rights met.

No it doesn't. I believe that creating environments best suited to individuals (non-inclusion) everyone will have their rights met and, rather than meeting basic rights, we'll be doing our best for all involved.

zzzzzzzz the selectiveness is based upon parents ability to pay among other things but, as I said, no entrance exam.

The gung ho attitude I was referring to was the idea that the reasonable adjustments made to allow this child to attend school (ie his calm space) were optional and could be utilised for other things (like borrowing someone's wheelchair to move rugby kit)

Based on the supposition that the person didn't need their wheelchair the whole time and was walking around when it was used. Why not? (although the link is tenuous!)

As far as the differentiation is concerned, then yes each child is differentiated for EVEN if that means a totally different set of work being set. This is because most teachers wouldn't think it was ok for part of their class to be watching while the rest were being taught

You think 20 children are each set different work? Really?

You spoke about inclusion not being the only answer for both sen, G&T and others. After reading that, I'm a little confused as to where the argument is. Because I don't think a child should have exclusive use of a room (and 10 minutes for it to be used as a changing room is fair)? Because we disagree as to where the line is draw between mainstream education being suitable (for me violence towards staff is beyond it)?

I think herecomesthepotatoes in her heart of hearts believes ALL schools should run like a public school and cannot comprehend that anyone of any worth or understanding would choose otherwise

I think that fee paying schools can learn from non-fee paying and vice versa. Twisting that into "anyone of any worth" is quite mean spirited but becoming common here because someone politely disagrees with others.

lookingAgain

I think the answer is that they do understand, frankly, they just don't care. With limited resources for state education people get "grabby

Perhaps you're right and yes, it is a zero sum game. But doesn't this notion of 'grabbiness' work both ways?

lacaelottie I haven't bitten yet!

claw but if a child is violent at school, don't they have SEN?

augusta you're very fascinated.

I'm fascinated that potatoes assumes that cerebral palsy automatically equals a wheelchair

The only two people I've properly known (as in, would call friends) with cerebral palsy needed a wheelchair. One of them is a famous comedian. The other (1st cousin) couldn't even communicate without one of those amazing computer things which he works with his eyes. We make assumptions based on past experience. It's how we learn!

I'm fascinated that she assumes funding will come from benefits and reducing unspecified bureaucracy

I haven't pretended to be running for government or have all the answers but unemployment benefit for starters. Reducing the tax burden on companies allows them to hire more staff. Tax avoidance (besides a few infamous multi-naitionals) is a drop in the ocean. The cost of bureaucracy (by which I mean showing we conform to government standards) to the company I work for was just shy of £8m last financial year.

NoHaudin

Where would you place my dd who is G&T, and has both physical disabilities and ASD and who has never been violent in her life?

Well, in a streamed education, she, I suspect and as has been proven, would benefit from being taught with G&T peers. Does she attend a grammar?

Or my ds who has ASD and mental health problems, is also very able academically and has occasionally been violent under extreme stress

That comes down to the frequency of his violence and I guess the reason that schools operate the suspension then expulsion so if it is so infrequent as to be forgiven (can't think of a better word) then the student can continue.

corythatwas

"you still have the problem of whether it's appropriate to put the bright child with brittle bones in with the bright child with a tendency to lash out unpredictably"

"I think you've missed something there, Augusta. Those are children with SN: their education (or even safety) doesn't matter in the way the education and safety of...you know... normal children do"

Who's ideas are you misrepresenting there? However, the aggressor should be kept away from the child with brittle bones. Are you arguing against that?

sleeponeday So, doesn't it make sense that G&T children should be working with their peers ie. grammar school.

merrymouse

The point of comprehensive education is that, as others have expressed on this thread, children don't all fit into a neat box labelled grammar/secondary modern/special school

That's true but unless education has unlimited funding, we need to do the best we can and try to fit children into boxes. That's the harsh reality of life. In an ideal world, every single child would benefit from a curriculum written purely for them. We cant do that but should should get as close to it as we can.

honkinghaddock · 22/04/2016 06:53

What are you going to do about environments other than school? Are you going to create a separate world for each individual?

zzzzz · 22/04/2016 07:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

claw2 · 22/04/2016 07:44

Herecomes

"But if a child is violent at school, don't they have SEN"

Is that a serious question!

MiffleTheIntrovert · 22/04/2016 07:57

I really think do people should be banned for disablist views and sock puppeting, although its alway amusing when they are thick enough to slip up and then feebly try to explain it.

Here come, doesn't the fact that you have had posts deleted (and hopefully MNHQ have made it clear to you exactly why) and that so many parents of disabled children find your views extremely offensive and very upsetting, give you any pause for thought?

I genuinely cannot think of a situation where I would be happy to spout such bollocks again and again and again, despite being asked to refrain. I just can't see how anyone would be happy to repeatedly insult and upset other people and not seem to care that lots of people thought I was a massive blundering knobhead with no thought but I am right and I am going to keep saying it even if everyone else thinks I'm being a complete twat.

Ironically I am sure a lot of our DC children behave more sensitively and respectfully than herecome does, despite herecome's desire to segregate and demonise them. It's like NIMBYISM but against disabled children.

merrymouse · 22/04/2016 08:02

potatoes, it is difficult to follow your argument. You seem to be affronted that children with SN are given any accommodation. You talk about the harsh reality of life, yet seem to have no concept of the impracticalities of putting children with vastly different needs into the same school simply because they have an SEN or that this wouldn't really save any money.

The key problem here was not that the OP wanted some kind of suite of rooms put aside for her son, but that the school had planned a strategy around the use of facilities that were often unavailable. When, predictably, the strategy failed because the facilities couldn't be used, the OP's son was suspended.

There are many ways that children with ASD can be supported, and they don't all involve a calm room. This child has 1:1 support and it should have been possible to spot that he was heading for a meltdown. The situation was handled badly. However, stuff happens, sometimes we all mess up. Yet the school didnt seem to be addressing how to improve the situation, they simply gave the OP's son a suspension. It's not really clear why this would prevent similar issues from occurring again.

However, you have argued that there must have been adequate preparation for the work, the girls must have needed the calm room (when it's not really relevant why the room wasn't available - it just wasn't) and that the OP's son with ASD who was in the middle of a meltdown should have responded to a simple explanation that what he was doing was wrong. Why is it difficult to accept that the school messed up because they hadn't thought through/didn't realise their plan wasn't practical?

According to legislation "all children regardless of their circumstances, are entitled to a full time education which is suitable to their age, ability, aptitude and any special educational needs they may have".

The OP has an obligation to ensure that her child receives this, and that is all she has done.

zzzzz · 22/04/2016 08:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zzzzz · 22/04/2016 08:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

oleoleoleole · 22/04/2016 08:34

Argue against his suspension. He was denied access to his coping mechanism so what did they expect? Go to the Governors if you have to, they have failed him. He absolutely should not have been punished.

Lancelottie · 22/04/2016 08:36

Herecomes, I agree with zzzzz that we are being hugely, pointlessly patient in trying to explain to you; and whether you can see it or not, you are being rude, thoughtless and dismissive of children's needs. You are doing this in the face of repeated explanation from those who know more than you do about this area.

I would suggest you take your own rather odd advice and grow up.

Lancelottie · 22/04/2016 08:38

Sorry again, Maddy, for letting your thread get derailed. Hope you get the outcome your son needs.

PolterGoose · 22/04/2016 08:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YouTheCat · 22/04/2016 08:52

Why would someone bang on and on about something they know absolutely nothing about? Confused

MiffleTheIntrovert · 22/04/2016 08:57

Well, exactly. To me it's the very definition of trolling, or at least being a deliberately goady fucker.

I really think one episode of blatant sock puppeting plus deleted posts for disablist opinions should have MNHQ reaching for the ban hammer. How many times are they allowed to get away with it?

If course they will just come back as a reregister as Polter warns - anyone remember DaftPunk? She had very similar views to this poster.

claw2 · 22/04/2016 08:57

Polter very good point!

I decided poster was trolling with all children who are violent have SEN.

We are clearly wasting our time

MiffleTheIntrovert · 22/04/2016 09:00

All we can do is report and hope they fuck off. It's so frustrating when threads get derailed. I know the best thing to do is not engage and they get bored, but how can you not? It's so difficult to let posts like this stand unchallenged!

honkinghaddock · 22/04/2016 09:05

all children that are violent have sen was a blatant goady comment.

YouTheCat · 22/04/2016 09:06

Clearly goady and has never spent more than 5 minutes on a school playground.

capsium · 22/04/2016 09:10

It continues to flabbergast me how low a priority schools place SEN provision.

There is thread after thread on here concerning how schools have used children's individual SEN funding for their own purposes - not on that individual child, used a dedicated TA to support other children or other carry out classroom tasks meaning they were not available to support the child they were assigned to, how the resources assigned to a child to manage any difficulties were used for some other purpose.

Having had a child with some additional educational needs I can safely say the most attention we got from the school was when we were completing the necessary paperwork to secure additional funding. Once that (substantial amount of) additional funding was secured, with a Statement, the school were much less keen to discuss my child's progress. The funding became a hindrance, in that it became apparent the school clung onto it and effectively managed my child's progress.

My child was supposed to be receiving 1 to 1, on the paperwork it said my child received and needed 1 to 1. In reality there was a TA assigned to my child's class, who worked with a group of children who all had additional and often conflicting needs. My child was placed to work in that group regardless of academic ability and conflicting need. This group did not undergo all the same assessments the rest of the class did. The TA was, on occasion, unavailable to attend meetings with specialists who came in to visit to observe and discuss my child's progress. Thankfully my child still progressed, however, it was only with the funding reform and need for detailed provision mapping that we were able to establish my child did not need (or receive) the level of support initially detailed on the Statement.

This kind of behaviour from schools distorts need. Children should not be treated as a 'cash cow' for funding. Funding which is for individual children should be used to benefit them. Provision which has been planned and supposedly put aside to cater for a child's additional needs should be available or an alternative plan put in place and discussed. It outrages me when educational professionals blame all the shortages in provision on 'not enough funding' because, when there is funding and provision in place, it is all too often misappropriated. There are complaints that it is 'all the government's fault', yet some of my experiences happened under the last Labour government. Then we get comments that more children should be in specialist schools, because mainstream 'cannot cope', yet how can you expect mainstream to 'cope', with catering for additional needs, when the funds and provision put aside for SENs is not used for the purpose assigned?