To be angry, and even a little bewildered on how to tackle this with the school?

[MaddyHatter]

DS has SN.. he has Autism, ADHD, Sensory Processing Disorder and Dyspraxia.... it makes for some very complex needs, a big one of which he CANNOT process emotion or self regulate and will go into a meltdown very suddenly.

One of the outcomes of him getting upset and frustrated and having a meltdown is that he lashes out during them, and can hurt the people near him. The school are aware of this, there are strategies in place to help him try to manage his feelings.

One of these strategies is the provision and freedom to go to a room called the Calm room, which is painted with calming colours and has cushions and bean bags...etc.

There was an incident today. Ds isnt having a good week and there is a piece of work he is flat refusing to do, and they keep trying to make him. Today they tried again and he began to get upset. The Learning Mentor tried to get him to go to her classroom to calm down, but his auditory processing issues meant he didn't understand and he thought she was going to try and make him do this work, and he lashed out.

He has been suspended, which i nominally support, even if i'm not happy, as in my eyes they're punishing him for part of his disability..

However, i asked DS why if he was getting angry, didn't he ask to use the Calm room (its right opposite his classroom) and he told me he wasnt allowed in there because some of the yr6 girls were using it as a PE changing room.

WTF?!?!

Now.. i appreciate at 10/11yo the girls may not wish to change in the classroom with the boys, and an alternative should be provided... but WHY THE FUCK are the school letting them use THE CALM ROOM which is there for children like my son to use as and when they need it?

I am so fucking angry... we spent AGES getting it through to him that he could remove himself from a situation and go to that room if he felt the need to help prevent him going into meltdown, and now, he has to check if its being used as a fucking changing room and isn't allowed in there if the girls belongings are... and has now ended up having a violent meltdown and hit a teacher and got suspended.

I just don't know how to tackle this or even where to start.

Tbh, there is unlikely to be a special room available throughout the poor child's life

Want to bet? Or is this just you waving your ignorance around for all to see?

As an autistic adult I often make use of them. There's one in the council offices in my town centre, one in the library, one in the shopping centre we go to, one at the airport, heck even Ikea has them now, and 3 out of the 4 places I've worked provided one.

In an ideal world I would meet the exact needs of every child that I teach, and ensure that they ALL have equal and full access to education. The stark reality is that those who have the greatest needs due to barriers to learning (whether physical, emotional or cognitive) have those needs met first, and everyone else has to be content with the middle ground. And you're right, in a civilized society we should meet the needs of the weakest first. All I'm trying to do is highlight that there IS a cost to other children - I'm not saying that is right or wrong, just that it happens.

Margot you have to remember there is (an arguably greater) a 'cost to other' children if an individual child's SEN is not met. Any distress caused to a child with SEN, by not meeting their needs, has huge potential to impact on other children's learning. OP's child's school had already allocated provision, they had the resource in place, which they then withdrew, unnecessarily. Any competing need, for that provision should have been discussed and the need allocated according to professionally agreed criteria, rather than on an ad hoc basis. Not allowing individuals with additional needs to fulfil their potential also comes at a huge cost to our society - we miss out on what they have to offer and their needs escalate as those with an inadequate education have to overcome even bigger barriers to success.

I agree hedgehog. Also many children become more able to cope in difficult situations for no other reason than that they have grown older, are more able to self regulate, are more articulate and able to communicate how they are feeling before they reach breaking point, and no longer have to spend time in the primary school environment.

claw

According to the principles of the devolved school management system (which is how our school budgets are set) the school is responsible for all monies and decisions regarding how that money is spent except for:

^Central support services e.g. English as an additional language support,
hearing, visually impaired services, educational psychology services;^
^Centrally funded support for children and young people who require significant
additional support whether from education (e.g. auxiliary support, specialist
aids and appliances) or from other agencies (e.g. health services);^

So the EAL teacher, for example, is funded centrally and is peripatetic based on need - obviously some schools have a greater proportion of EAL students than others. However, this is also constrained by travel times between schools in a large, rural council.

I'm not entirely sure what counts as "significant" for the second point - I'm not an SfL teacher. All I can say is that my understanding from colleagues is that the school can bid for staffing in the same way as they staff other departments. I do know it tends to be up to the school how the support is then allocated - the head of SfL timetables teachers and assistants to support throughout the school as required. There are NEVER enough support staff to go round though. I also cannot understand how a child who effectively functions at P1/2 level can be expected to cope (as in get through the day unscathed) at secondary school, in a average sized class (say 25), without 1:1 support - if that isn't significant then I'm not sure what is.

In this situation the cost of the calm room is a bit academic. If you decide on a strategy that can't be implemented in practice, it is never going to work, never mind how many people or how much cost it involves.

Margot many children with additional needs function overall at a level equal to the norm for their age-group, if their strengths are acknowledged as compensation for their weaknesses, albeit with difficulties in certain areas. For example, my DC could read and understand the written word very well upon school entry - no one had to teach my child how to read, however they had to spend more time helping my child write by hand and form letters. By secondary school this was resolved and my child can write well without any additional help.

His funding has been paid to the school yet he is actually allowed by the school to attend for 3 hours per week (and that's been since the start) his support is one dinner lady for 1 of those hours (not even the two adults he needs) the school say that is all they can accomadate.

Another placement has been found yet the school won't release any of his funding nor agree to removal from school roll so he can't go there yet.

Needs, your friend really needs to get advice from SOS SEN or IPSEA about this, it's grossly illegal. I think SOS SEN would do a formal pre-action letter which I suspect would make the school take notice of the fact that it's not exempt from the law.

Margot, from what I've just read, the boy you speak of should be eligible for a 'support plan' which I am assuming is similar to our EHCP?

I'm fascinated that potatoes assumes that cerebral palsy automatically equals a wheelchair. In the case of the child in the report I linked to, he didn't. And, whilst he was unusually able academically, it remains the fact that quite a number of children with SEN are able, but there are relatively few special schools that cater for them: there is absolutely no guarantee that there will always be one available to every child wherever s/he may be. As pointed out, even if you decide that you will put lots of investment into special schools for able children, you still have the problem of whether it's appropriate to put the bright child with brittle bones in with the bright child with a tendency to lash out unpredictably. And you then have the difficulty of what is to happen as they get older - should we have special universities lest students with SEN take attention and resources away from non-disabled students? And how do they slot back into society and jobs after all that segregation?

I'm also fascinated that she assumes funding will come from benefits and reducing unspecified bureaucracy (which in turn will increase unemployment) rather than reducing tax avoidance. Benefits are already cut to the bone and there is major underclaiming. What further benefits should we cut, and how will that strategy release the billions needed for a major special school building programme?

I am also puzzled about how segregation of pupils with disabilities will work. Where would you place my dd who is G&T, and has both physical disabilities and ASD and who has never been violent in her life? Or my ds who has ASD and mental health problems, is also very able academically and has occasionally been violent under extreme stress. Oh they both have SpLD as well.

I think you are missing potato's key point wheest and augusta.

"it boils down to my notion of looking after the majority. At times it makes life harder for an individual but sadly, it can't be helped."

You don't need to worry about non-specific money saving or tax raising if you can reassure yourself that you don't need to spend the money in the first place.

Of course the nature of life is that at some time or another we can all expect to be part of a minority with greater needs, at any one time most of us may feel that we are all in a minority, and even if we are part of the happy 'majority' we probably rely on people in minorities for society to function. But why bother with uncomfortable thoughts like that.

Indeed, NoHaudin.

My ds is severely autistic. He went to a mainstream nursery, mainly supported by me because funding took so long to get and was patchy. He then attended a unit attached to a mainstream school that used his funding for the school rather than for him. Then he got a place at an autism specific special school where he still struggled due to the nature of his autism and then he went to a residential school that was fantastic. He has always had very violent outbursts when he is frightened or overwhelmed.

His twin sister is also on the spectrum. She is very able academically but failed to thrive in mainstream secondary because it was totally overwhelming. She's done much better at college, who moved heaven and earth to give her space, due to her anxiety issues and now she's doing a degree. She's never been violent. Should she have gone to a special school or should her old school have made some reasonable adjustments for her (like providing a quiet space for when she was so anxious she self-harmed)?

I'd suggest it would work best by having them in mainstream but with a specific dedicated small room to which they could go when needed... oh, wait...

Capsium I'm glad for you that your child has managed well, and I'm fully aware that many many children do. Unfortunately the reality is that not all can cope. A child who has the difficulties of the one I described of course has strengths. A lovely lovey caring child who tried hard to cope. The reality is though that they were emotionally on a par with a 6 year old, their learning was in a similar place. I don't want to discuss them individually any further as I'm sure you can understand, but please believe me when I say that the lovely qualities displayed were not really enough to "balance" the other difficulties within the classroom.

Claw yes different schools use different terminology but same idea. They don't mean that funding is awarded though.

That's great news, Maddy.

"you still have the problem of whether it's appropriate to put the bright child with brittle bones in with the bright child with a tendency to lash out unpredictably"

I think you've missed something there, Augusta. Those are children with SN: their education (or even safety) doesn't matter in the way the education and safety of...you know... normal children do.

Once you've removed the violent child from the normal children, you see, the problem is solved.

NoHaudinMaWheest DS is diagnosed with ASD and anxiety, and is also on the AG&T Register. The school say he's gifted, not merely able. And it is stark, on this thread, that nobody is whining about how unfair that additional time, care and spending is. Apparently it's not unfair on other kids when the most able get additional support to attain their full potential. Just when it's a disabled child. Interesting double standard, there: no resentment for the cost his gifts represent, just the deficits (I don't think his autism is deficit, overall, but it certainly has its downsides, and it is those that need extra provision)

So boy who cannot function on a daily basis in Scotland has our equivalent of an ECHP, but no funding or support.

What is the purpose of the plan then!

I think I will bail out of this discussion as I really don't know enough about Scottish SEN or educational law

Margot this is why there needs to be a range of provision for those with additional needs.

However this range does include mainstream which means mainstream actually has to make additional provision for children with additional needs. Not, as in OP's case, make provision, withdraw it without notice and the suspend the child for the distress which this caused. Which is what this thread is about and is indicative of many parents' experiences of additional support within mainstream. My own experiences are indicative of this, my child had IEPs agreed which promised strategies in support which were never even trailed. Thankfully this did not bother my child or myself - my child progressed well regardless. However this could have been problematic.

Also, I strongly suspect, that when additional needs are not met, difficulties escalate and completely mask those 'compensating' strengths due to the distress caused to the child.

The point of comprehensive education is that, as others have expressed on this thread, children don't all fit into a neat box labelled grammar/secondary modern/special school.

Needs, your friend really needs to get advice from SOS SEN or IPSEA about this, it's grossly illegal. I think SOS SEN would do a formal pre-action letter which I suspect would make the school take notice of the fact that it's not exempt from the law

Thank you Augusta I have passed that info on to her, sadly she is terrified to rock the boat because every time she raises an issue they counteract with "doing otherwise would be thought of as emotional abuse are you sure you wish to push for that"