to think how your armpits smell isn't as important as whether your children will survive operations in the future?

[IceBeing]

Just seen a sidebar advert for antibacterial deodorant. Seriously, is antibiotic resistance happening in a parallel universe to the cosmetics industry?

I am sure it will all be wonderful fun to use their new product instead of just washing etc. but killing 90% of the bacteria is just focussing the minds of the 10% on how to evade destruction. When our children and grandchildren are in fear of their lives from superbugs every time they require routine surgery, we are not going to look back kindly on this kind of 'innovation'.

decaf to print 'antibacterial' they have to demonstrate that it actively kills bacteria, rather than passively kills them by removing the food source. This isn't difficult given the chemical composition or even particularly surprising.

I am just surprised they have made the move of acknowledging the antibacterial properties as this carries with it higher levels of proof, interacting with the medical community rather than the cosmetics and admitting out loud that they are contributing to resistance issues in the future at a time when the consensus of the scientific/medical community is that we should seriously look at limiting this kind of thing.

I guess it must be worth a LOT of money to them...

Well I think your thread is fascinating Op, and I've definitely learnt something new today.

Huh! I know plenty of people armpit hair doesn't work for.

I haven't RTFT but has anyone pointed out yet that skin flora (inc.. bacteria that cause armpits to smell) are non- pathogenic & are either harmless or actively beneficial to us? So even if deodorant was making them more resistant (and it's not, otherwise it would stop working) it's not like they cause a terrible disease.

Also, has there been an acknowledgement of the point that antibacterial =/= antibiotic contrary to what OP was claiming? (e.g. plain soap is definitely antibacterial but not at all antibiotic)

Yes there has cotedazur

RTFT

So why is OP still acting like antibacterial deodorants are dangerous because they could create a pathogen resistant to antibiotics?

IceBeing sorry but armpit hair?! You're saying this 'deals with' armpit bacteria? As in, helps you not to small? Cos someone should probably have a word with my husband's armpits in that case!

" there is a natural antibac way to deal with armpit bacteria... It's called hair. The job of the hair in your armpits is to wick the sweat (food) away from your skin (home of the bacteria) so that bacteria don't proliferate, eat the sweat and produce the bad smell"

Because adult humans' armpits don't smell when they don't shave?

Your "reasoning" is completely against nature. Apocrine glands that kick into gear during puberty and secrete that "food" for bacteria so that adult humans smell, like all other animals left in their natural states. That is their purpose. Armpit hair isn't meant to prevent this smell, and obviously doesn't. It is meant to diffuse it by increasing surface area, and (if you grow it long enough) by waving it around for other animals to sniff from afar.

Cote, when individual examples of a particular benign species of bacteria develop a resistance, they can transfer it to other, more dangerous species. Have a bit of a look into cross-species plasmid transfer.

Of course there is a natural antibac way to deal with armpit bacteria that has zero consequences for resistance and zero cancer impact also.

It's called hair. The job of the hair in your armpits is to wick the sweat (food) away from your skin (home of the bacteria) so that bacteria don't proliferate, eat the sweat and produce the bad smell.

I've really heard it all now. Give up with the pretence, you are clueless.

If I do a 13 hour shift without deodorant, halfway through the day I can smell myself. It's disgusting and not fair for the people I get up close and personal with. When I was depressed I went through a stage of not shaving and it made not a single difference except gave more surface area for the sweat to accumulate.

Has anyone mentioned salts yet - I use one of these hippy salt deodorants, works reasonably well. Antibacterial but not antibiotic I believe, but I am not a chemist.

Op you sound just like me in my 20s . I agree there is way too much obsession with cosmetics, including smells. We need to moderate and live with the rest of the planet rather than against it as best we can, find a new balance because we can hardly survive without the rest of the world. But honestly you can raise awareness without telling everyone that it's all the fault of people like them.

'People like you'? Bit confrontational, ffs calm your tits. You sound completely hysterical. Raving loonies do not generally get taken seriously.

"Of course there is a natural antibac way to deal with armpit bacteria that has zero consequences for resistance and zero cancer impact also.

It's called hair. The job of the hair in your armpits is to wick the sweat (food) away from your skin (home of the bacteria) so that bacteria don't proliferate, eat the sweat and produce the bad smell."

I am sorry, IceBeing but this is utter bollocks. When I was growing up, we had two baths a week - Sunday night and Wednesday night. I got two clean school shirts a week - Monday and Wednesday. When I became a teenager, my mum did not buy me antiperspirant/deodorant. I certainly did not shave my armpits.

I sweated, and I stunk - despite having armpit hair and not using any evil antiperspirants/deodorants/other antibacterial products. That. along with my greasy hair (only allowed to wash my hair twice a week), helped mark me out for the bullies' attention.

As a result, I am careful about my hygiene now, and use a strong, unperfumed antiperspirant, with my own choice of perfume.

As a nurse in the '80s, I treated plenty of patients who had armpit hair, but who still had BO.

Now, of course, if we all went about naked, instead of encumbering our bodies with clothes, those armpit hairs could waft about much more effectively. I'll never understand this modern obsession with hair removal, clothes, perfumes and cleanliness.

SDT So any single person with hair who has BO is evidence that hair has NO positive impacts on BO?

Only getting to wash twice a week might be more responsible than the hair don't you think?

cote what an absolutely lovely surprise you turning up on this thread.

While I would love to address all your points, or even direct you to the other people who have already addressed them on this thread, I think we both know that would be a waste of time.

If you can be arsed, and I know you can't, try the studies linked to by whyis that demonstrate that use of so called 'antibacterials' can increase resistance to so called 'antibiotics'.

I am not the only person who has said that, despite shaving underarm hair, I still had noticeable odour under my arms. And, in a hot day, I would get noticeable odour by the end of the day, even if freshly washed that morning.

I should also say that, even now I shave my armpits, and shower/wash daily, if I forget to use antiperspirant, on a hot day, I will get noticeable odour. Not having underarm hair has not made this worse - in fact, I think my under-arm odour was worse when I had underarm hair - but that is just my perception.

Hair doesn't stop BO.

In fact isn't there the idea that it aided mating because it trapped chemicals that omit odours, including the pheromones?

yup it traps odour - but the odour doesn't get generated if the bugs don't get out of control. Shaving damages more than the hair, it damages the skin too...also increasing the chances of busy bacteria getting out of balance.

Why is the benchmark for hair being effective a total and utter lack of smell? Why does hair have to kill 100% of bacteria in order to be helpful while even detol doesn't make that claim?

Do people find a single spray of antibac deodorant on their pits twice weekly completely eliminates BO?

Hair has a job to do , and it does it. If you don't wash then it will get overwhelmed. Just like spraying some lynx on doesn't actually create the same effect as washing before spraying some lynx on.

That all sounds like psuedo-science to me. Perspiration has it's own smell, it doesn't matter whether 'bugs are out of control' or not. Obviously excess bacteria will make it worse but even with normal skin flora there's going to be an odour from sweat. So to reduce smell perspiration needs to be reduced, which deodorant helps with.

According to the NHS, shaving can help reduce body odour www.nhs.uk/conditions/Body-odour/Pages/Introduction.aspx
The hair in your armpits traps sweat and odour, providing ideal conditions for bacteria to multiply

Why is the benchmark for hair being effective a total and utter lack of smell? Why does hair have to kill 100% of bacteria in order to be helpful while even detol doesn't make that claim

Wasn't aware anyone said that?
The fact is having hair doesn't reduce smell, deodorant does. This is true anecdotally for me, and is backed up by the NHS.

Sorry should say has it's own smell when broken down didn't mean it has it's own smell inherently.

Well, presumably sweat has a pheromone smell. I doubt armpit hair is clever enough to retain the pheromone smell but waft away the smelly bacteria.... Besides which, as Grays pointed out, the NHS thinks shaving armpit hair reduces body odour. I have to say, I wouldn't have thought a coating of porous hair on your armpits would do anything to waft smells away. It's always hair and clothes that can tell you if someone has been somewhere smoky, because they soak smells up, they don't drive them away!

"It's called hair. The job of the hair in your armpits is to wick the sweat (food) away from your skin (home of the bacteria) so that bacteria don't proliferate, eat the sweat and produce the bad smell."

"Only getting to wash twice a week might be more responsible than the hair don't you think?"

So - your first statement suggests that armpit hair will prevent odour by wicking perspiration away from the skin, but your unkind reply to me indicates it was my hygiene that was at fault for my having armpit odour. Surely the second statement contradicts the first?

You were pretty clear armpit hair would take away the bacteria's food - therefore there'd be no odour - so why would washing be an issue?