to think how your armpits smell isn't as important as whether your children will survive operations in the future?

[IceBeing]

Just seen a sidebar advert for antibacterial deodorant. Seriously, is antibiotic resistance happening in a parallel universe to the cosmetics industry?

I am sure it will all be wonderful fun to use their new product instead of just washing etc. but killing 90% of the bacteria is just focussing the minds of the 10% on how to evade destruction. When our children and grandchildren are in fear of their lives from superbugs every time they require routine surgery, we are not going to look back kindly on this kind of 'innovation'.

The problem with antibiotic development is to a large extent a side effect of the financial incentives in the patent system. If a private sector organisation develops a new drug then they can profit from a monopoly for 20 years (normally, but that includes testing and regulatory approval time which makes you no money).

If you've invented a new pain killer or antidepressant that's fine - you roll it out, market it, and sell as much as possible until your monopoly expires. If you've invented a new vaccine for a virus then that's absolutely brilliant - the plan (in an ideal world) is that you roll it out to the entire population of the world, and by the time your monopoly expires you've eradicated the virus anyway.

But the current paradigm for antibiotics is that we hold the new ones back for emergencies. We use common antibiotics like penicillin or erythromycin wherever we can and we only give the new superbug-busters as a last resort, because the more bacteria we expose to them, the higher the chance that some will evolve resistance. You certainly don't prescribe them in bulk or make them available over the counter. Eventually you are forced to roll Drug X out more widely as evolution makes penicillin and erythromycin almost useless, but by that point the monopoly has expired and the manufacturer has made sod all profit.

So I guess the approach is to rethink the system of financial incentives, or have the public sector and charities do all the research. Also of course, don't stuff chicken feed full of routine antibiotics, don't hand them out for every virus, and always finish the course. Oh, and ration the newer drugs so they're not available to anyone who says "evolution is just a theory".

Whyissheontheship The bacteria became "relatively resistant" because the alcohol wasn't strong enough.

Marynary that's the same mechanism as for antibiotic resistance- a small proportion of bacteria survive because the dosage wasn't strong enough (or was strong enough, if taken for the prescribed length of time. Hey presto, the resistant survive, breed and much human suffering ensues.

marynary yes that's how antibiotic resistance starts.

It's why you need to finish the course of antibiotics (otherwise you might get a few hangers on in not strong enough antibiotics so they learn to become resistant)

There is a good chance 'Relatively resistant' could lead to completely resistant eventually and then these bacteria could share their new found resistance with other more deadly bacteria

scooby "All antibiotics are antibacterial but all antibacterials are NOT antibiotics."

This is nearly right...in that it is totally backwards... some antibiotics kill yeast not bacteria and hence are (by the biochemical definition if not the medical one) antibiotic without being antibacterial.

All antibacterials are antibiotics.

but yeah I totally shouldn't call people out without having my facts straight....

anutter unfortunately this isn't the even the most apocalyptic thread title that I am responsible for - let alone the rest of MN.

Fleas have developed into super-fleas which aren't affected by the old anti-flea products, so now we have to use super-anti-flea products. Headlice the same. Won't anyone think of the children? We should all return to our lice/flea/bacterial past, where super-whatever's didn't exist, we were all hard-working cap-doffing plebs, and the world took care of itself.

So is it a good idea to put anything under our arms?

I use a combination of pit rock and an organic coconut deodorant. My DC uses a kids deodorant with no aluminium or parabens in. Btw, my DC's whole class were told in yr6 to start using deodorant. I have never noticed my DC smelling but I was an obedient parent and bought the roll on...

I don't think the perfumes and anti-sweat ingredients in deodorant/anti-perspirants are a huge risk to the world on the antibiotic/antibacterial resistance front, as killing the bacteria is not their primary purpose, which is to mask the smell and reduce sweat. Adding extra antibacterial products to them, eg silver, generally seems a bit like overkill to me, though...

Or Boaty perhaps evolve into a society less paranoid about a few relatively harmless germs and let our immune systems deal with them so the when it comes to a deadly germs which someone's immune system is genuinely struggling to fight off we can actually kill it and stop people (not just children) dying from infections which currently we can treat.

eatsleep

I liked your respose at 11:14 am
I agree, so irresponsible!

As eatsleep pointed out in the second article she shared there is actually no benefit to healthy households using antibacterials designed originally for hospitals where people have lowered immune systems.

Due to healthy people pointlessly using them now people who actually do need them can't benefit from them as the bacteria are becoming resistant

None of which actually has anything to do with putting perfume under your armpits.

The op is not talking about regular perfume deodorant (which is fine) but specifically antibacterial deodorant

Like this one which contains silver ions m.en.nivea-me.com/products/Deodorants/Silver-protect/SILVER-PROTECT-Roll-on and antibiotic used in the treatment of skin infections, burns, used in catheters. And bacteria are becoming resistant to it, which won't effect you and your BO but will effect someone who has a nasty drug resistant burn infection

IceBeing abjectly failed to make that clear in the title of her OP, hence the initial reactions to it! Also, most deodorants do contain ingredients which happen to kill bacteria, and apparently are still successfully doing so since the first commercial deodorant came out in 1888 (same recipe can still be bought today) and even prior to that, over hundreds of years, if you count the "organic and natural " deodorants.

It's bollocks. It's like listening to anti vaxxers flapping about hysterically.

Yes she did. Make it clear, that is.
Look. First line of OP.
Just seen a sidebar advert for antibacterial deodorant. Seriously, is antibiotic resistance happening in a parallel universe to the cosmetics industry?

She is not prophesying the end of the world will come about because of basic Lynx, and she never was.

tara I don't think some of the people on this thread are very interested in facts tbh, but thanks for trying...

Which part of it do you take particular issue with Stratter

Vaccination is completely different, there is no scientific evidence that there are any problems with vaccinations for one thing!

This might be a good time to link www.soilassociation.org/better-food/our-campaigns/save-our-antibiotics/

Tara - commercial deodorants are antibacterial. They kill the bacteria that cause sweat to smell, they aren't actually just cheap perfumes. If OP wanted to complain about adding yet more, unnecessary antibacterial agents which are also used in the medical world, not just the cosmetic industry (like silver), she should have been a bit more specific.

Antibacterial deodorants have their place for some people, just like antibiotics have.

I'm more concerned about over prescribing and patients over demanding them. As well as agricultural uses.

There's a theory (and some limited evidence) that bacteria that become resistance to anti-bac household products may also be more prone to antibiotic resistance. (Cross-resistance). The mechanism of pumping substances out of the bacterial cell may be the same in some cases.

So no, YANBU.