to tell potential BIL the truth.

[ForTheSakeOfFuck]

Apologies in advance. To avoid drip-feeding this is going to be pretty long.

A few years ago, we found out that SIL had run herself into an epic amount of debt. The kind of amount that if you won it, you might even think about retiring. The details are pretty identifying so I can't go into them but it's enough to say that it was a combination of massive loans and burning through money that had been entrusted to her and she has literally nothing to show for any of it, ffs. Anyway, after she lost her house her DPs stepped forth and put another roof over her head. (I wouldn't have been so kind, but easier said when it's not your child.) All the while, they kept asking, "Have you told us about EVERYTHING you owe now?" and she kept swearing that she had, and then time and again, something new would come out from missed bills to unpaid bank loans. She is, by any standard, extremely secretive and would not have confessed to any of the debt had it not come out by accident, and she even tried to hide what she'd done via some ridiculously crap fraud that could have actually landed her in prison if the relative had wanted to go that far. In short, her finances are shot. If she does nothing but repay her debt for the rest of her life, she might finally clear it when she's seventy. She will never have a mortgage, she'll probably never get credit, and as far as her DPs are concerned, she can't have anything in her name for fear that it'll get frittered away, so she's effectively on permanent financial probation with them. (Again, not my choice of solution, but what can you do.)

Second factor: she's also a disaster with relationships. She either picks truly awful characters, or if she finds a semi-decent one, she goes so overboard with jealous control that she sends them running for the hills. None of her relationships make it past the two year mark and most die a gruesome death before six months. Finally, for good measure, she's increasingly desperate for babies (she has none so far), and time is moving on for her. Back to the present: A couple of months ago she started seeing someone new. He's a complete step-change from her past efforts - solvent, serious, quiet, hard-working, stable - in fact I'm kind of at a loss to figure out (a) why he isn't already taken and (b) what he sees in her. Whatever the case, DH and I think that if she has a shot of making a family happen with anyone, this guy would be a great option, BUT we don't think she's told him about her finances. She swears that she has, but knowing her character as I think I do, I wouldn't put it past her to have brushed it all off as "a little bit of money owed", if she's even said that much, and then rush to get pregnant, because, by her logic, he'd then be stuck with her. We're not sure what to do. Do we pull him to one side and make sure he really does have all the facts? Or do we stay out of it and let it all go however it's going to go? He's a nice guy and I think he deserves to know, but I'm also conscious that it's meddling in someone else's relationship and I'd be furious if someone did that to me. Then again, if she were a serial batterer, I wouldn't hesitate to tell him. I just don't know where the line is drawn here. Also, selfishly, if it all goes wrong and he leaves, it'll end up becoming our problem. She barely gets on with her DPs anymore - no surprise - and she can't even run her own household, so as a single mother there is simply no way she wouldn't end up crashing and burning.

In her favour, I want to say that she is a great auntie to our DCs - they bloody love her, and after a lot of failure and mess, I REALLY want her to finally have some stability and joy and a focus outside of herself in her life. I also think that with the right support around her - and maybe this guy could be it - she would probably grow into a great mother and partner. I would be properly and seriously delighted relieved if he knew the truth, and despite it, they could still live happily ever after, but what's the right way forward? Do we shut up and watch and wait? Or speak with the guy? Or what?? and if you read this far!

I'm another who'd normally say keep out of it, but this isn't a small issue and it's obvious you're going to feel terrible if he gets shafted - even though it's not your fault

Personally I think I'd do some gentle probing to find what, if anything, he knows. There's no need to go into gory detail and blacken her name; surely a suggestion that he might want to make sure he's fully informed should be enough? If it's put carefully enough then hopefully he might take the hint without offence all round - and if he doesn't, at least you tried

OP why would you as an individual need to mention her debt in front of her? Does she know your financial ins and outs? I have lots of in-laws and know relatively little about their finances; it just doesn't come up in conversation. Is it possible that you use it as a stick to beat her with? That her parents do, too?

TimeToMuskUp My hope is that he does know and doesn't leave.

This is completely and utterly nothing to do with you- you don't have a responsibility to a stranger who is also an adult and who can check the finances of the women he dates all by himself.

People make mistakes, my friends and relatives have made loads. I simply can't think of a time in which I might intervene and stick my beak and say 'oooh, did you know that X has had exceptionally bad debt/might be infertile/once dated a guy in jail' or whatever. It is their tale to tell, nothing to do with you.

It's not about being judgemental, it's about keeping to your own territory. Her life, and the story she tells any prospective mate, is hers!

My husband is quite bad with money, if someone had taken me on one side when we first started out and were madly in love, I would have assumed they were insanely jealous or had their own issues. We have managed this issue over the years and I'm very happy I married him.

Just because you seem to think she's an utter loser doesn't mean everyone else will.

OP, hope aside, what if he doesn't know and leaves? Will you tell the next? And the next? And the next?

She can be declared bankrupt - I'm fairly sure. If she blows up at the mere mention of it because the family won't let her live it down why on EARTH do you think going behind her back to her boyfriend to slag her off fill him in would EVER be a good plan? It would probably result in her going NC with you.

I would stay out of it. It's up to them to discuss finances with each other, I wouldn't give money or do anything to be financially linked with someone without finding out more about them myself.

I'm also wondering why she doesn't go bankrupt if she has no assets left (and then you wouldn't have to tell him because the information would be in the public domain...).

I'm related to someone just like your SIL,if you hadn't said she didn't have any children I would have sworn it was her.

A relative of mine was exactly the same as your SIL,owed money every where,pissed everyone off(and we come from a huge family)lived with my parents for a while because they loved her as we all did and wanted to look after her,she caused lots of problems and moved out all of a sudden she'd ran up thousands(and I mean well into double figures)in debt,my poor parents were both taken really ill because of the stress and worry when the bailiffs turned up,they'd had no idea what she'd been upto.

She got pregnant,on purpose(we didn't know this until the baby was due)by someone that really cared about her and was very rich.He never wanted children and she knew that,he found out what she'd done and left her.He paid for his child but refused to have anything to do with her or the child,his parents stepped in and helped out lots,loved the child,talked they're son around and then she screwed up again and screwed them over money and then stopped letting any of them see the child.

She cut everyone out all of our family,his family,all of her friends everyone.SS have had to be involved with the child's care because she really shouldn't have ever become a parent.She'd sleep till midday and ignore the child,the place was a state and she'd go out drinking all the time.
She came from a loving and close family and she was really inteligent and had a couple of really good really highly paid jobs.But she's just never seemed to be able to not mess everything up for herself and other's.

I know other's have said stay out off it,but honestly having seen what's happened to one young child because of a similar situation I'd have to let him know,before there's a chance of a baby happening.

Ofcourse she can declare bankruptcy if she works! Op do you actually have any real idea of her situation? If she has no assets and owes monet that she realistically cannot repay then she can apply to make herself bankrupt. Anyone she owes money to can apply to make her bankrupt but there's no point if she has no assets. They can apply to the court to put a charge on her property to ensure the debt is paid if she sells. As she has lost her house that's not an issue.

TimeToMuskUp I never mention it in front of her. Not my affair to deal with except as it strays into our household finances. Her family (mainly her DPs and to a much lesser extent DH) are the only ones who ever raise it, and her DPs say more than enough on the subject for everyone's taste.

Okay, I think the consensus seems to be minimally wait (we'd already planned on waiting anyway) and see how it goes. With luck he actually really does know and this is all moot anyway.

Though similarly Twirlypoo can you imagine the answers if the sexes of the people involved were swapped?

'My heavily indebted and secretive brother in law, with no financial assets and no prospects of ever having them, who has bleed his parents dry whilst relying on them to keep a roof over his head and keep him financially afloat, has met a really really lovely, quiet and hardworking woman.

I am terrified he will destroy her financial security and the relationship will break up leaving her penniless at best, in the worst case deeply in debt, heartbroken and robbed of her hard earned security. Should we let her know the situation so she can judge if she wants to take that risk or at least be aware of 'red flags' should they arise?'

Eversong it depends on her job, some careers won't let you practice with a bankruptcy. You can't even be a school governor!

If I were the guy I would be bloody angry if that kind of information was withheld by people who I considered to be my future family. It's not a small debt that you could get away with either. A debt until she is seventy? I would run for the hills too.

I think your DH should take him out for a beer & talk to him.

Yes, if I was your SIL & if I found out I'd be furious, but, she has issues. This is well beyond the norm & I think he deserves to be told before she gets herself pregnant to him. If she can be this devious about money, she can be equally devious about birth control.

Bringing a child into this fucked up situation is not fair when the father doesn't know what he's letting hmself in for. She can't look after herself let alone a child if he can't cope with her deceit & leaves her.

I think you'd be doing him & any potential nieces & nephews a disservice not talking to him. But it needs to come from your DH.

I would tell him purely because of her secretive and deceitful handling of her debt in the past.
He deserves to know

People make mistakes, my friends and relatives have made loads

.....but this wasn't a typical mistake. It was a fuck up of giant proportions that has lifelong consequences. She lied and lied and lied some more by th sounds of it.

Tell him.

I'd get your DH to talk to him. This is something I'd like to know also. It may very well come out if their lives become further integrated and it's not the sort of thing you can keep hidden from your partner in the longer-term.

FlyingElbows The amount I know of her situation is summed up in the paperwork I was asked to read when it all first came out and then later when people started turning up at our house wanting to find her. She effectively doesn't have anything because all her stuff is in family member's names, but I can't speculate much further than that about what she's chosen as a solution. Bankruptcy definitely doesn't seem the case though because she still has bank accounts and so forth, which I thought wasn't an option?

I think the time he should know is if the relationship progresses and he plans to marry her as half (?) of her debt would become his responsibility.

Unfortunately, you may not be presented with that opportunity.

You can still have bank accounts - they wouldn't have access to over drafts etc, but you would never know it wasn't a normal account (I had a nat west one initially, and am now with Barclays)

beware I found myself in that very situation with a man nearly 20 years ago and nobody warned me. In fact, outside of his family, who were all pretty much the same, nobody really knew because he was so charming on the outside. Even when we split up and I had to sell my flat that I'd worked so, so hard for, and walk away with less than nothing to sort out the mess he left me in, still no-one believed it and I lost all my friends, too.

I am not sure I would have believed it if someone had warned me because the red flags were certainly there - from the minute we met in fact, when he asked me to buy him a drink because he'd forgotten his wallet, and it just got worse as time went on.

I do agree that if it comes from anyone it should come from your DH. He's her brother, he could take him out for a drink and just run it past him in a 'mates' kind of way rather than a big dramatic intervention (which always look hilarious when I see them on tv but reality is I'd be f-bombing everyone if I was the centre of one). If it has to be done, let it be done gently.

She can have a bank account if she's bankrupt, just a basic one with no type of credit facility. There are ten I think banks who provide accounts for people declared bankrupt. It's really not the end of the world situation people sometimes think it is and for lots of people it puts an end to really really difficult times. If her situation is that bad then she can get help and advice for free. There are certainly jobs it would affect but lots it wouldn't.