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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry HR made this (relatively minor) assumption?

731 replies

SpaceCadet4000 · 16/04/2016 15:33

My DH and I got married last August. I made the decision to keep my surname and continue to use the title Ms. I don't mind if other people choose to change their name, but I personally am uncomfortable with the historical and gendered connotations of name changing. This have never been an issue- I just select the Ms box when filling in forms, and I don't shout about it to other people.

However, I have recently started a new job. On my second day I went for my induction with HR where they collected details about my next of kin (mentioned it was my husband as they needed the relationship stated), whether I wanted a pension, my NI number etc. All fairly innocuous, and actually very little form filling on my part, and certainly no disclosure of my title.

As I joined close to payday I received my pay check late through the post- it's addressed to Mrs Space Cadet. This suggests that the HR advisor has clearly assumed I'm a Mrs based on our conversation.

It's minor, and I assume fairly quick to rectify, but I feel really angry that someone else has made this decision about me. I'm no special snowflake, but I'm dismayed that my identity has been so casually undermined. The office culture is fairly conservative, so I also feel like I'll be judged as an SJW for asking for it to be changed.

AIBU to just email them and ask for it to be changed?

OP posts:
Floggingmolly · 18/04/2016 18:42

You can be proud to be married (I suppose, personally I think pride is a strange word in this context) without feeling the need to wave a little flag in people's faces or gave it tattooed on your forehead.
If I was forced to stop using Mrs., the very last thing I'd feel is baulked at being able to flaunt my married status...

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/04/2016 18:44

No one has come back to you on it because it has no bearing on the title choices that women make.
HTH

No one has come back because no one can satisfactorily explain why Mrs AKiss wants to signify she is proud to be married but Mr AKiss doesn't have to tell the world how proud he is by changing his title to "Mr (married now)AKiss.

As for keeping Mrs after a divorce I have always taken that to mean "not married now but was once"

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 18:46

Whatever you take Mrs to mean when someone who is not married uses Mrs is your own prejudice.

incognitofan · 18/04/2016 18:48

I'm divorced. I separated and took on the title Ms in 2009. In 2011 I started a new job, always a Ms.

Then a HR assistant made a judgement on me being a single parent (and thought I was being stuck up) and changed me to Miss. I was livid - I use my married surname, and am not a Miss. And it was done without my permission. My ID card etc all got reprinted wrong.

I made a complaint and got it changed back.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/04/2016 18:49

Mrs is not
Mrs is not telling the world that you are married, as has been pointed out several times by people who are not married and are using Mrs as their title of choice

I think it has been pointed out by you. The only women I have ever met who use Mrs when they are not married are divorced women. It is disingenuous in the extreme to say that in the UK Mrs is ambiguous.


AKissACuddleAndACheekyFinger · 18/04/2016 18:53

Lass you said my husband doesn't 'have' to tell the world he is married. It's not that he doesn't 'have' to, it's that, as I have variously pointed out, he CAN'T. Equally, I don't 'have' to, but I DO. That is why I think the inequality lies with the fact men are not able to do the same as women.

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 18:57

I'm sure if men were so desperate to show the world how proud they were to be married, they would have come up with a title a long time ago.

I don't think the answer is to come up with a second title for men. Married status is an irrelevance when it comes to titles. It really is unnecessary these days.

Do those women who have said they are proud to be married feel that they would still want to differentiate themselves if "Mrs' was suddenly applied to everyone? I suspect they would.

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 18:58

It has been pointed out by more people than just me Lass, but I really have neither the time nor the inclination to reread the thread and find out who, just because you can't be arsed to.

Itinerary · 18/04/2016 18:58

Using Ms and being proud to be married aren't mutually exclusive

Who said they were?

You referred to "all the women who are proud to be married" in the context of "having to find another title" if Mrs wasn't available, so you've effectively said that being "proud to be married" only applies to women who use Mrs.

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 18:59

At the risk of being totally flamed here, so at this point, I'll probably withdraw, it does appear to be married women who are perpetuating this two tier system. If married women didn't feel the need to announce it by changing their title after marriage, we wouldn't have this 'class' system with women's titles.

I blame the patriarchy!

HarlotBronte · 18/04/2016 19:01

I like Mrs as we have established but to answer Harlot's question, I love Mrs because the option is there and so I use it. I doubt I would lose any sleep if I couldn't use it any more, but I don't see that happening.

Thanks for answering, I should make a couple of things clear though. One is that I'm definitely not suggesting married women should be barred from using Mrs, that goes against all my beliefs about adults having the right to choose what they're called. What I was talking about was if Mrs started being used by all women over a certain age: this isn't about you not being able to use it any more, just about it no longer meaning what you want it to mean. And the second is that I don't think that will happen either, it was purely hypothetical.

In terms of inequality, it is true that men don't have a title denoting marriage. There isn't actually anything stopping those of them who want one to come up with something, though. Similar to the 'Ms' movement for women. The fact that none of them appear to have even attempted this rather suggests that it isn't something many men want.

(eagerly awaits someone linking to a copy of their doctoral thesis about some men's group doing just that in 70s Canada or something!)

BertrandRussell · 18/04/2016 19:03

"I think it has been pointed out by you. The only women I have ever met who use Mrs when they are not married are divorced women. It is disingenuous in the extreme to say that in the UK Mrs is ambiguous"

This.


MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 19:03

Eleanora, it was actually single 'career' women that were the driving force behind changing the meaning of Mrs.

Historically, adult women of social standing (teachers etc for example) were Mrs, as a contraction of mistress, regardless of marital status.

Young women wanted to be called Miss, as it set them apart from the older ones, and from that point Mrs began to evolve into meaning married.

AKissACuddleAndACheekyFinger · 18/04/2016 19:04

I never flame anyone, I'm a lover not a fighter and genuinely think that enjoying each other's different opinions and view is essential to being rounded and tolerant people. I also think you're right, people like me completely perpetuate the system! I don't feel, personally, that it is 'two tier' as I've never considered being married to be 'better' than not being married but I've learned from this thread that many people do feel that this is the perception and have been treated as such; again, I think that is the problem and not the title itself.

And to clarify, I don't actually think they should add in another title for married men, I just think that is where the inequality is.

If you're going, Elenor (I don't think I've spelled that correctly) then I'll go with you and it'll balance out-one from each 'side'!

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 19:06

Fwiw Eleanora, I'm quite happy to blame the patriarchy too. GrinWink

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/04/2016 19:10

You referred to "all the women who are proud to be married" in the context of "having to find another title" if Mrs wasn't available, so you've effectively said that being "proud to be married" only applies to women who use Mrs

I said nothing of the sort. There are women who feel the need to tell the world they are married by using Mrs. Goodness ony knows why they think it's important but for some like MrsAKiss it's a source of pride.

There are women who were married but hold on to Mrs after divorce. I've never knowingly met any single (ie never married women) who uses Mrs.

I know divorced women who revert back to Miss or Ms (or who were never Mrs in the first place- my mother was married and divorced twice and was Miss for her whole life)

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 19:10

t is disingenuous in the extreme to say that in the UK Mrs is ambiguous"

I don't think anyone has claimed that Mrs is ambiguous though, have they?

I have said I would like it to be.

I would like there to be one title for all adult females, I just happen to think that Mrs is a more achievable option than Ms.
I personally am not a fan of Ms, but if that was what adult female was, then that is what I would be.

HarlotBronte · 18/04/2016 19:11

And to clarify, I don't actually think they should add in another title for married men, I just think that is where the inequality is.

It's not really up to us, is it? If men wanted a title showing they were married, I can't see that women would have much right to be listened to on the matter. That would be as gross as it is when men tell their wives they ought to use Mrs. However, men do have the option of inventing a title, and it seems pretty obvious they're not up for it.

lorelei9here · 18/04/2016 19:16

Eleanora, agree but we have got some "proud to be Miss" posters as well. There's one on this thread and I think I've seen a couple of others on MN. I'm proud to be single too but it has no bearing on me being Ms.

Dylan, agree with your points.

Itinerary · 18/04/2016 19:20

So Lass who exactly did you mean by "all the women who are proud to be married (who would probably then invent a new title to show they were married)"?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/04/2016 19:23

I don't think anyone has claimed that Mrs is ambiguous though, have they?

Well according to you just a few posts back Mrs is not telling the world that you are married,

BTW your theory about Miss and Mrs isn't correct. Mrs originated as a contraction of the honorific Mistress, the feminine of Mister, or Master, which was originally applied to both married and unmarried women. The split into Mrs for married women and Miss for unmarried began during the 17th century; the 20th century saw the coinage of a new unmarked option Ms.

AppleSetsSail · 18/04/2016 19:25

Good grief, I don't think I could honestly say I'm proud to be married. I guess I'm pretty impressed with myself that I've managed to stay married for 15 years, but that seems quite separate.

I merely like being a Mrs in a way I could never like Ms.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/04/2016 19:28

So Lass who exactly did you mean by "all the women who are proud to be married (who would probably then invent a new title to show they were married)"?

Those married women who currently think it is important ( for whatever reason , some in the case of MrsA, due to being proud of being married) to tell the world their marital status would have to find a new word if "Mrs" no longer (proudly or otherwise) signalled that.

AKissACuddleAndACheekyFinger · 18/04/2016 19:31

Harlot, I'm a bit confused by 'it's not up to you is it?' I wasn't suggesting men should do anything about it, that's their choice of course, but pointing out the irrefutable inequality can surely be done by either gender?

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 19:39

Lass:

^I don't think anyone has claimed that Mrs is ambiguous though, have they?

Well according to you just a few posts back Mrs is not telling the world that you are married,^

Choosing to use Mrs is not telling the world that you are married, no.
But as society tends to associate Mrs with married, then the title is not ambiguous.

BTW your theory about Miss and Mrs isn't correct.

It is not 'my theory', it was gleaned from extensive googling last night from numerous sources.

Mrs originated as a contraction of the honorific Mistress, the feminine of Mister, or Master, which was originally applied to both married and unmarried women.

Yes, as I said.

The split into Mrs for married women and Miss for unmarried began during the 17th century

Again, I said this.
The reason for the split was young woman wanting to be called 'Miss', which meant that Mrs then evolved to mean married. Which I also said.

Am confused as to what your point actually is tbh?