To be angry HR made this (relatively minor) assumption?

[SpaceCadet4000]

My DH and I got married last August. I made the decision to keep my surname and continue to use the title Ms. I don't mind if other people choose to change their name, but I personally am uncomfortable with the historical and gendered connotations of name changing. This have never been an issue- I just select the Ms box when filling in forms, and I don't shout about it to other people.

However, I have recently started a new job. On my second day I went for my induction with HR where they collected details about my next of kin (mentioned it was my husband as they needed the relationship stated), whether I wanted a pension, my NI number etc. All fairly innocuous, and actually very little form filling on my part, and certainly no disclosure of my title.

As I joined close to payday I received my pay check late through the post- it's addressed to Mrs Space Cadet. This suggests that the HR advisor has clearly assumed I'm a Mrs based on our conversation.

It's minor, and I assume fairly quick to rectify, but I feel really angry that someone else has made this decision about me. I'm no special snowflake, but I'm dismayed that my identity has been so casually undermined. The office culture is fairly conservative, so I also feel like I'll be judged as an SJW for asking for it to be changed.

AIBU to just email them and ask for it to be changed?

I'm sorry but it's total rubbish that my choice to be a Mrs makes its harder for anyone to be a Ms!!

I'm afraid I can't agree with posters saying that my choice-my delighted, excited wonderful choice-to use Mrs makes somebody else's choice harder. Surely the issue that should be tackled is discrimination of any sort rather than removing the option that causes the alleged discrimination (I only say alleged as I have never experienced it nor witnessed it but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen)?

I can see why neither of you like this idea, but it says a lot that you haven't been able to explain why you disagree. AKiss makes a vital point about the need to tackle discrimination, but it doesn't actually address the issue of the impact of other women's choices at all.

Basically, women's choices in this matter impact on other women's choices. When you have yours, you may be making it harder for someone to have theirs. As I've said, I want a neutral title, with no connotations, equivalent to Mr and not saying anything about my marital status or views. Women don't have that. 'Ms' is the nearest thing, but as this thread shows, it isn't without connotations. If all women used it, it would be. The choice of many women to use 'Mrs' to denote their married status means it isn't. Ergo, your choice stops me having mine. I'm sorry if this is disagreeable to you, but it doesn't make it any less fact and you don't have a right not to hear about the impact your choice has on other women.

Or, to take an example that might be more palatable to you both, AKiss you mention that you prefer your title to mark you out as a wife. Well, there are posters in this thread who've advocated that all adult women, married or not, use 'Mrs' once they get to a certain age. If we all did this, regardless of relationship status, eventually your special title showing the world you're married would stop being that. It would just be something all women used, and so you'd no longer have your preferred option because there wouldn't be a title denoting a married woman. Other women's choices would've stopped Mrs from having the meaning you want it to have. It's the same with 'Ms' now.

I don't like Ms particularly but I do prefer a neutral term that doesn't have any connotations as to my marital status which is why I'd prefer that to be the default rather than everyone calling themselves 'Mrs'.

And what's wrong with marking yourself out as married? many people are proud of being married, having a husband, and so choose to be a Mrs

Did your husband change his name to Mr X (married)? Because if not this makes no sense whatsoever.

Of course. I understand the objections, because Mrs obviously has connotations of marriage. I was just pointing out that some people want Mrs to be the equivalent of the German Frau and become a universal title for women over a certain age regardless of marital status. If we did that, those who like calling themselves Mrs because they want people to know they're married would be shit out of luck.

Harlot, you're brilliant.

lorelei, I don't like the sound of Ms, no, but I'm not the only one to say that on this thread.

I have remained Mrs since ending my marriage purely because I don't like Ms, so the marriage thing means nothing to me.

Wrt Mrs or Ms, it would be far easier to adopt Mrs for all than it would be Ms - as evidenced on this thread some married people want to be Mrs and will not adopt Ms at all.
If every adult female was Mrs (as with Mr), then there would be no dilemma; for as long as the third choice of Ms exists there is always connotations to a person's choice of title.

Bo, surely as long as there are two choices there's an issue? The third one isn't what makes it an issue.

Someone asked me upthread why I think that there is a class system with married/unmarried women.

The number of women saying that they are proud to be married and want to mark themselves out as such is evidence of that.

As HarlotBronte says, if we all called ourselves Mrs, that would take away that title for married women that marks them out as different/proud/special in some way.

And:
many people are proud of being married, having a husband, and so choose to be a Mrs.

It's not many people, it's women - there is no equivalent title for men. Why is it only women announcing their marital status in their title? Why should we have to announce our marital status through our titles when men don't? It's so old fashioned!

Sorry, I meant two not three choices.

As in Ms or Mrs for adult female.

We could also get rid of this whole issue in a strike by all using Mrs from tomorrow, but that won't happen because some women don't want to be anything other than Ms

I think you are completely missing the point. I hate the sound of Mrs. It makes me think of Les Dawson. I don't use it because I have no need to advertise my marital status. I use Ms or Miss. I'm not fussed which. I know plenty of married woman who use Miss. It's very common in the acting and legal profession to be married and Miss.

However if Mrs were truly the equivalent of Frau, Madame, Mevrouw and every other words for a women over 18 I'd happily use it.

However that would upset all the women who are proud to be married (who would probably then invent a new title to show they were married)

Thanks lorelei!

I think what some people are not getting is that if you want your title to convey something about you, in this case your marital status but also applies to other things, you need enough other people to play the game too. If they don't, your title stops having the meaning you want it to. So I would like to be called Ms, without any connotations about either my marital status or views. Not enough other women agree with me to make this so, meaning I don't get my way. Those who like to advertise their married status by using Mrs are reliant on enough married women using it and enough married women not using it for it to mean anything. If half of married women used Mrs, and half of unmarried women used it too, it would stop denoting a woman who is or has been married (since a lot of divorced women still keep it). Thus, your choice impacts other women and theirs impacts you. It isn't the same for men because they only have Mr, but if enough of them started using an alternative, it would be.

The same is true with other titles. Professor, for example, has a meaning. If we all started prefacing our names with Professor, or everyone over a certain age or whatever, it would effectively lose that meaning. People holding that rank would have to come up with something else if they still wanted a title denoting their status in academia etc. So it's all very well to rhapsodise about choice, and there's no getting round the fact that adults should have the right to call themselves what they like. But it's delusional to think we make those choices in a vacuum.

However that would upset all the women who are proud to be married (who would probably then invent a new title to show they were married)

That's an interesting point Lass. If I might ask the posters who've talked about wanting to use Mrs to convey their pride in being married, what would you choose to do if Mrs stopped denoting a married woman? If we did as the Germans have done with Frau and simply start using it after a certain age, what would you do? The way I see it is, you'd either have to deal with the fact that your title no longer tells the world you're married, or you'd have to invent a new one with all the baggage that involves. Unless I am missing one or more other options? (I presume for the sake of argument that those of you who are so supportive of women having a choice wouldn't want a restriction of the right to call oneself Ms, Mrs or Miss regardless of marital status).

Harlot "But it's delusional to think we make those choices in a vacuum."

Exactly. Which is why I was so frank on my feelings re women who think keeping three titles to show this is the right thing to do. It makes my Ms pointless.

Well not quite pointless but removes a lot of the point.

LassWiTheDelicateAir, I think it was actually you that completely missed my point tbh.

I posted that statement as a direct copy of the post before mine by Eleanora, where she said exactly those words but with Ms instead of Mrs.

I too have no need to advertise my marital status, I was just pointing out why the move to Mrs for all is far more achievable than Ms for all.

However that would upset all the women who are proud to be married (who would probably then invent a new title to show they were married)

Using Ms and being proud to be married aren't mutually exclusive.

That's an interesting point Lass. If I might ask the posters who've talked about wanting to use Mrs to convey their pride in being married, what would you choose to do if Mrs stopped denoting a married woman?

We non Mrs would have to bind together to start using it and see what happens !

It does happen to a limited extent. The juniors at my hairdresser have clearly been told that if a customer looks like a grown up, that when they collect them from the waiting area for the stylists, to call them Mrs. Every one over about 30 is a Mrs.

Did your husband change his name to Mr X (married)? Because if not this makes no sense whatsoever

That's the question that they can't (or most accurately) won't answer, i've asked that whether as a married man who kept his surname and title of Mr whether I am showing insufficient pride at being married or am 'hiding' my marital status behind a neutral honourific. No one's come back to me on an answer.

Funny that.

Itinerary is completely right-you can be proud to be married and call yourself ms or miss or dr or Mrs or whatever you like! I like Mrs as we have established but to answer Harlot's question, I love Mrs because the option is there and so I use it. I doubt I would lose any sleep if I couldn't use it any more, but I don't see that happening. As I said, I think the issue being focussed on should be the discrimination itself not the titles.

No one has come back to you on it because it has no bearing on the title choices that women make.
HTH

However that would upset all the women who are proud to be married (who would probably then invent a new title to show they were married)

Using Ms and being proud to be married aren't mutually exclusive

Who said they were ? (Although I'm not sure why being married is a source of pride) but the point is Ms isn't telling the world you are married. Mrs is. If Mrs came to be the exact equivalent of Mr and didnt mean married what would those women who insist on using it do?

Dylan the choice isn't there so you can't-I did put that in on of my replies that this fact is just as discriminatory as there being a Miss, Ms and Mrs. My husband would happily use a Married Man title but he's not able to (although he's not known as Mr but that is beside the point)

Mrs is not telling the world that you are married, as has been pointed out several times by people who are not married and are using Mrs as their title of choice.

Lass everybody equates things to be proud of differently, don't they? It's what makes the world go round, the differences between us. I am very proud of our marriage for a million reasons which would undoubtedly bore people to death so I won't list them. My son was very proud the other day that he managed to fart the theme tune of Match of the Day-I see no reason for pride there but he appears to have told everyone he knows! Seriously, it's just the differences between people's perceptions and there is nothing wrong with any of the opinions or feelings expressed in this thread. It is a real shame that there isn't really a viable compromise.