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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be angry HR made this (relatively minor) assumption?

731 replies

SpaceCadet4000 · 16/04/2016 15:33

My DH and I got married last August. I made the decision to keep my surname and continue to use the title Ms. I don't mind if other people choose to change their name, but I personally am uncomfortable with the historical and gendered connotations of name changing. This have never been an issue- I just select the Ms box when filling in forms, and I don't shout about it to other people.

However, I have recently started a new job. On my second day I went for my induction with HR where they collected details about my next of kin (mentioned it was my husband as they needed the relationship stated), whether I wanted a pension, my NI number etc. All fairly innocuous, and actually very little form filling on my part, and certainly no disclosure of my title.

As I joined close to payday I received my pay check late through the post- it's addressed to Mrs Space Cadet. This suggests that the HR advisor has clearly assumed I'm a Mrs based on our conversation.

It's minor, and I assume fairly quick to rectify, but I feel really angry that someone else has made this decision about me. I'm no special snowflake, but I'm dismayed that my identity has been so casually undermined. The office culture is fairly conservative, so I also feel like I'll be judged as an SJW for asking for it to be changed.

AIBU to just email them and ask for it to be changed?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 18/04/2016 14:45

"It^^ is interesting that a lot of women who don't have a 'conventional set up' are not as vociferous about being called Ms."

Well, there's one...........

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 14:46

The Mrs on marriage thing is something that women themselves made happen.

Prior to that, Mrs was adult female.

Pogmella · 18/04/2016 14:49

They only made it happen because being single was lower status- initially only married women could vote.

Pogmella · 18/04/2016 14:52

Argh- ignore me, not the case in the UK.

TeatimeForTheSoul · 18/04/2016 14:53

What is a conventional set-up. DH and I play to our strengths for ease: him cooking, washing, cleaning and finances; me everything mechanical, technical, building and needing ideas or planning. Luckily he gives me lifts to the garage and is my sounding board for most things so is often present when men treat me like a second-class citizen. DH is laid back so laughs at them but knowing due to lack of change in society DD will suffer this too makes me angry.
If you had daughters you would find from age 1 it is difficult to find not stereotyped/non pink clothes. And from age 8 sexualisation in clothing comes in. School colludes with this. It is a relief to go to the continent to be able to buy non sexualised or stereotyped clothes and shoes in greens and blues. Otherwise it's boys clothes. And God forbid you have a girl into Lego and superheroes, good luck!

MiffleTheIntrovert · 18/04/2016 14:56

I have never personally experienced any racism. I think I will start denying it exists based on this and imply victims of racism are exaggerating/have a chip on their shoulder/overreacting/have nothing better to do etc.

Except clearly I won't, as that would make me a massive twat.

The issues of the gendered pay gap and lack of equality for women in the workplace are very real and I don't think anyone could deny their existence (amazingly, even if it hasn't happened to them personally).

I think people would also be hard pressed to come up with a good reason why women need to advertise their marital status in a professional environment. There is no need whatsoever. It's simply an irrelevance in this day and age, and it's a symptom of the bigger issues mentioned above.

It's all very well people saying they've never been treated differently because they are a women - whether you feel you have or have not personally is secondary to the fact that sexism and discrimination undeniably exists, whether you're aware of it or not. (And I think it is a lack of awareness). The choices we make all contribute to the bigger picture and all this "well I've never been discriminated against", IMHO, should be replaced with "I recognise women are discriminated against and I would like to do what I can to address this."

Anything that promotes equality in the workplace is surely a good thing? Don't all women want a level playing field for all? And part of achieving that equality is insisting on absolute parity between genders, not just with regards to pay, but also with regards to the "little things" like how we are addressed. A woman's marital status, just like a man's, should be regarded as in irrelevance in the workplace.

TeatimeForTheSoul · 18/04/2016 14:58

Miffle everything you said Smile Wine

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 15:01

A woman's marital status, just like a man's, should be regarded as in irrelevance in the workplace.

Exactly, so why the insistence on a third state (Ms)?.

If women stuck to Miss/Mrs for child/adult, as men do with Master/Mr, then there would be no relevance to their title.

The very existence of 3 title choices are what makes them have any connotations or significance in the first place.

TeatimeForTheSoul · 18/04/2016 15:05

I would say there is worldwide sexism towards men and boys. If declaring your martial status is an important issue for people why do we deny them the choice. Why do societies assume they are unable to control their basic instincts to not to assault women and insist women cover up and learn how to avoid attack?
Poor guys.
(you can taste the cynicism can't you)

OneMagnumisneverenough · 18/04/2016 15:09

Quick reply as I'm heading to school.

Unconventional in that DH was a SAHP and I've always been the main wage earner and he's worked part time and in a lot of more female dominated roles.

Sexism in that they are constantly getting lectured at school about not doing as well as girls, DS1 wasn't allowed to go to a support group as it was all girls. Boys getting punished for things at school that girls have done and gotten away with.

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 15:14

If women stuck to Miss/Mrs for child/adult, as men do with Master/Mr, then there would be no relevance to their title.

Yes, but unfortunately this isn't the way that things have progressed and it's too late to put that particular genie back in the bottle now.

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 15:15

A woman's marital status, just like a man's, should be regarded as in irrelevance in the workplace.

And I'd go further and say that a woman's marital status, just like a man's, should be regarded as an irrelevance at all, not just in the workplace. Yet many married women do insist on a change of title.

ComfortingKormaBalls · 18/04/2016 16:22

A woman's gender, just like a man's, should be regarded as an irrelevance in the workplace.

tallbirduk · 18/04/2016 16:33

My local MP refused to address me as "Ms" because it was not a title he recognised!!!

Tessabelle74 · 18/04/2016 16:53

I'm sorry but it's total rubbish that my choice to be a Mrs makes its harder for anyone to be a Ms!! And no one has said "left on the shelf" in relation to a single woman since about 1962!!! Be a Ms be a Jedi for all I care but DO NOT accuse me of undermining other women because of MY choice as I've not said anything of the sort about YOUR choice!

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 17:06

But why even change your title Tessabelle? If it's such an irrelevance to so many posters on this board, why do women change their title after getting married?

AKissACuddleAndACheekyFinger · 18/04/2016 17:18

I'm afraid I can't agree with posters saying that my choice-my delighted, excited wonderful choice-to use Mrs makes somebody else's choice harder. Surely the issue that should be tackled is discrimination of any sort rather than removing the option that causes the alleged discrimination (I only say alleged as I have never experienced it nor witnessed it but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen)? Everyone should have their free choice and it's very sad that in 2016 we have to discuss this in such heated terms because people still feel discriminated against. As I posted earlier I will continue to 'let the side down' because I love being identified as a wife but I would be mortified if anyone else felt they couldn't use Ms as a result...it wouldn't stop me using Mrs though because surely that just caves into the discrimination?

That was a bit rambling (hilariously I am posting while cooking my husband his dinner, just to reinforce another anachronism) but I hope you get my meaning.

lorelei9here · 18/04/2016 17:19

Tall, did you pass that information to the party and/or relevant ministers? That's bizarre. Unless you live in 1816 Grin

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 17:26

I love being identified as a wife

And that's it....it's a way of women marking themselves out as different to those who aren't.

Why do we even need this differentiation anymore? It's an irrelevance these days, surely! We just don't need a two tier system of women's titles.

We don't mark men out as being a husband. It's a very unequal system.

AKissACuddleAndACheekyFinger · 18/04/2016 17:33

And in highlighting that part of my post it seems you have missed my main point-which is my fault for awful rambling structure. You're correct. I DO actively mark myself out as a wife. I do, I do, I do! Because I want to! Because I can! Because I adore the ground my husband walks on and it's my choice and my privilege to be able to do that. I think the inequality could be construed as being towards men-my husband has just said he would perfectly happily have used another title to denote marriage and he hasn't taken his wedding ring off since putting it on.

My point was that it does exist, fairly or unfairly, but it is surely the discrimination itself that should be tackled. You could remove the possibility of Mrs and at the same time quash the discrimination but only because you have removed the opportunity for it in that very small case. It wouldn't have changed views or the capacity for people to discriminate and it is that sort of behaviour that should be tackled. Keep all the titles, add a few more maybe, but challenge the discrimination.

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 17:40

But how do you do that, AKiss?

I think the only way to avoid the discrimination is to remove the use of a two tier system altogether hence I use the title Ms. But unless every woman did that, we'll continue with a two tier system.

I just don't see why it's necessary to have two different titles to denote women's status. It's not necessary but you are choosing to identify yourself in this way because you are proud of it - you want to mark yourself out as being married as opposed to being unmarried.

It's women who are perpetuating this system and it does make me a little sad that we can't all stick together on this. We could get rid of the issue in a stroke but all using Ms from tomorrow! But I'd say that most married women wouldn't want to do this because they want to mark themselves out as married.

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 17:44

We could also get rid of this whole issue in a strike by all using Mrs from tomorrow, but that won't happen because some women don't want to be anything other than Ms.

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 17:44

*stroke not strike, sorry.

lorelei9here · 18/04/2016 17:46

Bo, is it you that doesn't like the sound of Ms?

I can't see why it's so important to you to confuse the issue by changing the meaning of words.

228agreenend · 18/04/2016 17:50

And what's wrong with marking yourself out as married? many people are proud of being married, having a husband, and so choose to be a Mrs.

Sorry if you feel I'm letting the side down, but I don't think I am. I choose to be a Mrs, like you choose to be A Ms.

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