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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry HR made this (relatively minor) assumption?

731 replies

SpaceCadet4000 · 16/04/2016 15:33

My DH and I got married last August. I made the decision to keep my surname and continue to use the title Ms. I don't mind if other people choose to change their name, but I personally am uncomfortable with the historical and gendered connotations of name changing. This have never been an issue- I just select the Ms box when filling in forms, and I don't shout about it to other people.

However, I have recently started a new job. On my second day I went for my induction with HR where they collected details about my next of kin (mentioned it was my husband as they needed the relationship stated), whether I wanted a pension, my NI number etc. All fairly innocuous, and actually very little form filling on my part, and certainly no disclosure of my title.

As I joined close to payday I received my pay check late through the post- it's addressed to Mrs Space Cadet. This suggests that the HR advisor has clearly assumed I'm a Mrs based on our conversation.

It's minor, and I assume fairly quick to rectify, but I feel really angry that someone else has made this decision about me. I'm no special snowflake, but I'm dismayed that my identity has been so casually undermined. The office culture is fairly conservative, so I also feel like I'll be judged as an SJW for asking for it to be changed.

AIBU to just email them and ask for it to be changed?

OP posts:
StarlingMurmuration · 18/04/2016 11:28

I should add that I'm engaged to a man whose surname beings with a letter in the middle of the alphabet, and is really "normal" and common, and therefor easy to spell and pronounce. If I was engaged to someone with the last name "Zsolozphfith", I'd keep my natal name.

(No offence to anyone with that surname, I just tried to make up worse to spell than my own).

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 11:50

There's talk on here of women being proud to be 'Mrs' and proud of being married.

If men were so proud of being married too, why isn't there an equivalent for them?

Why is it only women who announce their status in relation to a man when giving their title?

This is why it seems unnecessary and unfair to me to have two titles for married and unmarried women. I really had hoped we would have moved on from this differentiation in 2016. I'm aware that I will get massively jumped on for saying this but I do think it perpetuates a class system amongst women that men don't have.

I thought the whole Miss/Mrs thing was unfair from when I was a teenager and have been Ms ever since. Yes, it's sounds a bit clumsy and I would prefer something a bit easier to say but it's the principle for me that matters.

And, as someone posted on here years ago on a similar thread, why does the postman/woman need to know if you're married anyway!

Tessabelle74 · 18/04/2016 11:56

My husband is proud! He wears a ring to prove this! If there was an equivalent he'd have done that too! And as for a "class system"?? That somehow means you think wonen who are married are judged as what? Higher class than Miss or Ms or lower as we've "succumbed" to marriage?

BertrandRussell · 18/04/2016 11:59

"I think some people who use Ms don't really understand why they are doing it either - such is life."

Sorry- don't get this..........

TeatimeForTheSoul · 18/04/2016 12:01

I have never asked someone to justify why they call themselves Mrs, changed their name on marriage, or why they wear a wedding ring.
Can someone explain why I am repeatedly asked to justify why I am not Mrs, kept my name and don't wear a ring? Can I just be me please, just like DH is allowed to be?

BertrandRussell · 18/04/2016 12:03

In traditional British society,married woman certainly have higher status than single women after the age of about 25...........

prettybird · 18/04/2016 12:35

Starling - my name does begin with a Z Smile. It's very unusual (even to German speakers as it's so old) and I always have to spell it "

HarlotBronte · 18/04/2016 12:45

Who are you resting your case in response to onemagnum?

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 12:48

^[Bangs head off desk]

Keeping your surname and continuing to use the title Ms has nothing to do with 'disguising the fact you are married'.^

Except repeatedly (including throughout this thread), it is cited as a primary reason.

[would 'bang head off desk' also, except I find it a very passive aggressive way of attempting to shut down discussion]

OneMagnumisneverenough · 18/04/2016 12:55

That would be you Harlot - someone else posted in the middle while I was typing.

HarlotBronte · 18/04/2016 13:00

It would be interesting to hear why you think that's grounds for case resting, then.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 18/04/2016 13:16

Because we were talking about women putting down other women for making their own decisions and how that is just as bad or worse than men doing it. and you come along and are so up your own arse about why you are right and how other women are clearly wrong and how we are making your life harder. It just totally illustrates the attitude that's all.

So, it's okay for woman to have a free choice and be who they want to be as long as it fits in with what you want. How is that fair or equal?

Imo, the whole title thing is really not relevant anymore and constantly arguing about who holds the moral high ground is just more damaging - why does it matter to you what other women choose to do? People using Mrs have basically been told that we don't understand, are unenlightened and traitors to our sex and obviously now we are making your life harder.

BertrandRussell · 18/04/2016 13:24

It is OK for women to disagree with each other, you know!

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 13:30

Tessabelle - married women are seen as having a higher status, always have.

Have you never heard terms like 'on the shelf' used to describe single women?

Also, women repeatedly use terms like "proud" of being married and like to distinguish themselves as being married, despite it being a bit pointless really in this day and age, by calling themselves 'Mrs'. If there really wasn't a differentiation in status, why would women want to change their titles and have it known?

Women have created a neutral term for themselves with Ms. If it really mattered all that much to men, they would have created a 'married' title years ago.

If there was an equivalent for men, I wouldn't have a problem with using Miss/Mrs but there isn't. I don't see why women should be defined by their marital status and men aren't.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 18/04/2016 13:30

Yes, indeed it is Betrand. What's not okay is to make other woman feel like they are "letting the side down" and all those other things just because they happen to have exercised their right to choose their own title in the same way as the poster has but made a different choice. I don't think any of the posters who decided to be a Mrs have said anything other than that people choosing Ms are perfectly entitled to and shouldn't be discriminated because they are however the attitude is not the same in the other direction and apparently we are undermining their decision by not choosing the same as them. wtaf.

Tessabelle74 · 18/04/2016 13:31

BertrandrlRussel I was 40 when I got married and don't feel I've been treated any differently since adding a gold band to my finger so maybe in Victorian times your point would be valid but most definitely NOT in 2016!

LikeDylanInTheMovies · 18/04/2016 13:32

would 'bang head off desk' also, except I find it a very passive aggressive way of attempting to shut down discussion]

Bo you're quite entitled to take that view. But in my case it was a heartfelt frustration and exasperation. Not least as I've had to deal with these issues when my wife and I got married and she decided to remain Ms Hername. 'No she's not been married previously, 'no I'm not going to "put my foot down" and insist she becomes Mrs Movies', no she hasn't fallen out with my family' and 'no it isn't a sign of a lack of commitment.'

To address your main point, I can see no evidence of women using the title 'Ms' as a way of disguising the fact they are married. Plenty of people not wanting their identity and status defined in relation to a man.

As I've stated upthread, my title gives no indication of my marital status and I've had the same name since I was born. Sometimes - shock horror - I go out in public without a wedding ring on. No one has yet accused me of disguising the fact I am married. Ever.

Would I like a title that defined me in relation to my marital status, say MMR (for Married Mister) Hername? No, absolutely not.

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 13:34

It is OK for women to disagree with each other, you know!

Agree.
I only take offence when women put down other women for daring to disagree tbh.

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 13:36

LikeDylan, are you male?

If so, I have no interest in your opinion as to which title I or other women prefer to use.

BertrandRussell · 18/04/2016 13:37

Obviously you have a perfect right to call yourself Mrs if you want to,. But. If you do, you have to do it in the knowledge that you are helping to prop up old fashioned views about women and their place in society and their worth. It's shit- but it's true. You're perfectly free to make the choice that you feel is right for you, but you have to accept that it might not be the choice that is right for women as a whole.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 18/04/2016 13:38

I think I must live in a parallel universe. I've never come across any of this questioning or felt the need to ask someone what their title is much less comment on it. I have neighbours and acquaintances where I know they have different surnames, it's never occurred to me to ask if they are married, what title they use and why or judge them because of it. I use my first name on a day to day basis and do the same with others. The titles thing is a complete irrelevancy. It would just be simpler if software was changed to require no title and we just got on with using our names.

In the meantime people can make their own choice.

HarlotBronte · 18/04/2016 13:41

Not one thing in my post put any other woman down onemagnum, nor did I make any assessment of which choice is ok and which isn't. You've inferred that, and I shan't be held responsible for it. It's a fact that some women making the choice to use a title denoting marital status makes it harder for other women to have their choice of a neutral title. Like it or not. It's not about right or wrong, other women have reasons for their decisions I don't presume to even know about, let alone understand. This is the case whatever title you use. It would therefore be impossible to define this in terms of right and wrong, which is why I very carefully didn't. But this doesn't change the consequences their decisions have for me, and they're not entitled to expect me not to discuss those consequences.

Your response to having this fact out to you is a better example of putting another woman down and, indeed, being up one's own arse, than anything you're complaining about. You're shooting the messenger because the message isn't to your taste.

ElanoraHeights · 18/04/2016 13:42

I'm with BertrandRussell on this.

If it really doesn't matter, why do women need to change their titles on marriage? Titles should an irrelevancy these days but it is still an issue while there is a system of needlessly differentiating between married and unmarried women.

MrsBoDuke · 18/04/2016 13:44

you have to do it in the knowledge that you are helping to prop up old fashioned views about women and their place in society and their worth. It's shit- but it's true.

See, I would take the opposite stance.

If you choose to use Ms you have to do it in the knowledge that you are helping to prop up old fashioned views about women and their place in society and their worth.

That is, that you are perpetuating and reinforcing the idea that a woman who chooses to be Mrs as an adult female (married or otherwise) is only trying to advertise their marital status.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 18/04/2016 13:45

It's shit- but it's true. In your opinion that is.

You're perfectly free to make the choice that you feel is right for you, but you have to accept that it might not be the choice that is right for women as a whole.

I don't have to accept anything. It may not be a choice that is right for some women. I don't feel that other women's choice has any relevance to me. What I choose to call myself doesn't even define who I am never mind it affecting who you are. call yourself what ever you like but stop castigating other women for making a different choice.

You are obviously free to have and express your own opinions but it's wrong to make assumptions about what influenced other peoples decisions and put them down for it.

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