To be angry HR made this (relatively minor) assumption?

[SpaceCadet4000]

My DH and I got married last August. I made the decision to keep my surname and continue to use the title Ms. I don't mind if other people choose to change their name, but I personally am uncomfortable with the historical and gendered connotations of name changing. This have never been an issue- I just select the Ms box when filling in forms, and I don't shout about it to other people.

However, I have recently started a new job. On my second day I went for my induction with HR where they collected details about my next of kin (mentioned it was my husband as they needed the relationship stated), whether I wanted a pension, my NI number etc. All fairly innocuous, and actually very little form filling on my part, and certainly no disclosure of my title.

As I joined close to payday I received my pay check late through the post- it's addressed to Mrs Space Cadet. This suggests that the HR advisor has clearly assumed I'm a Mrs based on our conversation.

It's minor, and I assume fairly quick to rectify, but I feel really angry that someone else has made this decision about me. I'm no special snowflake, but I'm dismayed that my identity has been so casually undermined. The office culture is fairly conservative, so I also feel like I'll be judged as an SJW for asking for it to be changed.

AIBU to just email them and ask for it to be changed?

PS like a previous poster I find Ms really objectionable and hate it when it's the default female title.

YANBU - I have Ms since I was a teenager and get very annoyed when people call me 'Miss'. I'm not 12 years old! They've pretty much got rid of 'Miss' in France and Germany now because it's recognised that it's unnecessary.

I would be irritated too, OP.

I dislike all buzzy words and I've never heard Mrs said with a z sound in any accent

I also don't like the sound of the word "Ms' and often, when people are taking down my title, they mishear it and write 'Miss' and I have to correct them. I do find it an annoying sound but I will continue to use it as it's an issue of equality to me.

I remember asking my mum when I was a teenager why my two brothers didn't have to change their names/titles on marriage and, from that day, became a ms.

If there was an equivalent for men, e.g. if we carried on calling unmarried men 'Master' all their lives, I wouldn't object to being Miss, but we don't. And I do feel it is completely unnecessary to define a woman by her marital status. I wish more women would reject the use of Mrs/Miss and then using Ms would become standard as it has done in other European countries.

I wish more women would reject the use of Mrs/Miss and then using Ms would become standard

Alternatively, if people stopped insisting on Ms and just used Mrs then Mrs would become standard.

Tessabelle74 Sun 17-Apr-16 14:17:21 - If you wanted to stay as Ms Space Cadet why bother with the marriage? I'm genuinely confused as to why changing your name is out dated and sexist but marriage isn't?

I thought this too. The origin of marriage was to transfer ownership of woman from her father to the husband. She was a possession.

I have no idea what using Ms has to do with equality. Surely that's about everyone being treated fairly without regard to their gender, race, age, sexual orientation etc. By hiding the fact that you are married in order to achieve that aren't you just encouraging it? Do the married Mss wear a wedding ring?

"I have no idea what using Ms has to do with equality. Surely that's about everyone being treated fairly without regard to their gender, race, age, sexual orientation etc. By hiding the fact that you are married in order to achieve that aren't you just encouraging it? Do the married Mss wear a wedding ring?"

It's to do with women being defined by their relationship with men, rather than as individuals in a way that men aren't. Why would it be at all relevant in most contexts whether a woman is married or not? And if it is relevant, for some reason I can't think of (!), why is it relevant for women and not for men?

And a maiden name is the name you had when you were a maiden-aka a virgin. Don't you think it's a bit.....wierd....to use a term that categorizes a woman by whether she is a virgin or not?

I don't think anyone is getting massively offended or outraged or any of those words people use. But it is all part of a whole raft of usages and minor patterns of behaviour that reinforce outdated attitudes to women. Changing language is important because it helps to change the way we think. When I was young, for example, we routinely talked about "lady doctors" and "male nurses". We wouldn't dream of doing that nowadays. Because we gradually changed the language and the mind set.

What we call things matters!

I can see merit in titles (if we need them at all, which we don't, but they are culturally embedded and allow the formality of address by second name, which many of us like) being differentiated only by child / adult and male / female, along the Miss / Master , Mrs / Mr route.

However my objection to Mrs is that it is the female qualification of the word Mister. Mister - and 'Mist(e)ress'. Like calling female novelists 'authoress' and other such nonsense. You can tell how old a job is by whether it has a female version - there are no doctoresses or engineerettes as far as I know.

Do the married Mss wear a wedding ring?

I'm sure some of them do, and their husbands/wives may do as well.

Ms is also a contraction of Mistress though, so same connotations.

(Agree about jobs having female versions though, it's daft).

I'm not sure that Ms is a direct shortening of Mrs / Miss - Mister has an m and an s...

Maybe everyone should be 'M' - pronounced 'Em' , though I prefer 'Citizen' as in Citizen Smith or Citizen Blu.

Did you think that even when you saw the explanation of why that's a ridiculous view comfortingkormaballs?

The woman taking the man's name isn't some innate and essential part of marriage, as evidenced by the fact that loads of cultures don't do it. Marriage is an ancient human custom and we were doing it when participants didn't even have last names to change. Wife taking the name of husband is simply a behaviour that some people have tacked onto marriage fairly recently in the grand scheme of things. It's no more or less a part of marriage than any other marriage related tradition that's been practiced by some humans for some of our history. This is before we get into the legal and financial ramifications that can't be got outside marriage. What the post you quoted basically implied is that if you want the IHT exemption why bother keeping your own name (as if changing it isn't infinitely more bother anyway). Nonsensical.

In terms of sexism, there's certainly a problematic history there although of course not all cultures practiced marriage as a transfer of ownership. But ultimately, in our society marriage protects the poorer party more than the richer. While there are individual women who are wealthier than their partners, they're the minority, and the childbearing that most women engage in has a greater financial impact on us, on average. While I respect that there are well meant feminist objections towards marriage, there's nothing intrinsically feminist about a woman who has a male partner and has lessened her earning potential by childbearing, which statistically is most of us, foregoing the best financial protections society has to offer.

Maybe everyone should be 'M' - pronounced 'Em'

Could make James Bond films a bit crowded though!

By hiding the fact that you are married in order to achieve that aren't you just encouraging it? Do the married Mss wear a wedding ring?

[Bangs head off desk]

Keeping your surname and continuing to use the title Ms has nothing to do with 'disguising the fact you are married'. My wife kept her surname and her title (Ms) on marriage, just like I did. Am I disguising the fact I'm married by not using a title that gives my marital status away.

The point I was making is that if you think you can only achieve equality in the workplace (which doesn't apply to all the reasons that people might choose to be Ms) by obscuring the fact that you are married then you are just perpetuating the belief that to some people it matters.

Choose which title you like, but achieving parity in the workplace isn't going to be achieved by using Ms.

I do get that for men there is no change and if you personally don't want to change that is perfectly fine as it is also perfectly fine for those that want to change. Blowing someone else's candle out doesn't make your burn brighter.

But you're arguing from a false premise Magnum I can't think of a single case where someone has kept their surname as a tool for obscuring the fact they were married as a tool for gaining parity at work.

It has certainly been suggested in this thread unless I have read something from nothing, if I have then I apologise. I can also say that I have never (I've been working for 33 years) seen an instance of a woman being treated less favourably than a man in the workplace regardless of whether they are married or not and regardless of what title they use but I have no doubt it happens. tbf I don't come across many people who use Ms either but then I don't really find in a business setting that I come across any people who use titles at all. Even Chief Executives in companies I've worked for, male and female are generally known by their first name or first name & surname.

I do get that for men there is no change and if you personally don't want to change that is perfectly fine as it is also perfectly fine for those that want to change. Blowing someone else's candle out doesn't make your burn brighter.

Well. You're half right. Clearly it's fine for people to change their names because in a free country, adults should be able to choose whatever surname they want. The countries that don't allow this are placing what is, for me at least, an unacceptable restriction on personal liberties.

However, blowing out someone else's candle would make mine burn brighter because the women who choose to change their names are actually making it harder for me to have my free choice. Because you see, what I want is an equivalent to Mr: a title that doesn't convey my marital status but also doesn't carry any baggage with it. As this thread makes very clear, women don't have that option. Unless maybe you're a Dr or Reverend or whatever, but I'm not. 'Ms' comes closest but, as the last few hundred posts have demonstrated, isn't there. Part of the reason for this is that other women choose to use a title conveying their marital status, and so that means those of us who don't are seen differently. The only way to solve this problem would actually be for all women, or all women of a certain age or whatever, to use the same title and not change it on marriage. I don't advocate this as a solution, because I don't think the state should be able to tell an adult what they can call themself, but there can be no gainsaying the fact that the free choices of other women stop me from having mine.

The major issue I have with some on this thread is the attitude that those of us who are using Mrs, and are happy to do so, are somehow committing some sin against womanhood! I don't care if you change your name to Princess Consuela Bananahammock so please don't assume your better than me just because you're "making a stand" by using Ms! It's personal preference so each to their own eh?

I rest my case.

I don't think that people who use Ms are better. I think some people who object to Ms might not completely understand why others think it's an issue. Not completely understanding something is not any sort of value judgment. Not wanting to find out is.

We're talking about making informed decisions, surely?

I'm all for making informed decisions, I've decided on the evidence available that some people are complete arseholes and should be ashamed of themselves.

I think some people who use Ms don't really understand why they are doing it either - such is life.

As far as I can see Ms is perfectly neutral, giving away nothing of a woman's marital status! I'm am NOT preventing anyone else's right to chose that because I'm a Mrs! I like being being a Mrs, my husband and I worked and saved very hard for our wedding and I'm PROUD to be his Mrs, taking away MY choice to satisfy the few who believe Ms has "baggage" is unacceptable!

I'm Ms if I have to choose between Miss/Ms/Mrs with no other options, but actually I'm Dr Murmuration. So if anyone asks "Is it Miss or Mrs?" I say "It's Dr". I'll do the same when I'm married, I expect.

I do think it's a feminist issue. Why should only women have their marital status advertised by their title? If someone thinks I'm shrill or hysterical or a "feminazi" or whatever for caring, that's their problem, not mine.

I will change my name on marriage. I don't like my natal surname - it's hard to spell, it's hard to pronounce, and it starts with a letter right at the end of the alphabet, which had proved inconvenient in the past. But I don't want to upset my father by changing it by deed poll - changing it when I marry is a diplomatic way to get rid of it. I identify much more with my first name than my surname. If this make people think I'm a bad feminist, or a weak compliant insult to the sisterhood, that's also their problem, not mine.