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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry HR made this (relatively minor) assumption?

731 replies

SpaceCadet4000 · 16/04/2016 15:33

My DH and I got married last August. I made the decision to keep my surname and continue to use the title Ms. I don't mind if other people choose to change their name, but I personally am uncomfortable with the historical and gendered connotations of name changing. This have never been an issue- I just select the Ms box when filling in forms, and I don't shout about it to other people.

However, I have recently started a new job. On my second day I went for my induction with HR where they collected details about my next of kin (mentioned it was my husband as they needed the relationship stated), whether I wanted a pension, my NI number etc. All fairly innocuous, and actually very little form filling on my part, and certainly no disclosure of my title.

As I joined close to payday I received my pay check late through the post- it's addressed to Mrs Space Cadet. This suggests that the HR advisor has clearly assumed I'm a Mrs based on our conversation.

It's minor, and I assume fairly quick to rectify, but I feel really angry that someone else has made this decision about me. I'm no special snowflake, but I'm dismayed that my identity has been so casually undermined. The office culture is fairly conservative, so I also feel like I'll be judged as an SJW for asking for it to be changed.

AIBU to just email them and ask for it to be changed?

OP posts:
OneMagnumisneverenough · 17/04/2016 15:23

Things like this should be changed when a specific request is made Yes, and I'm sure it will be when the OP asks.

GarlicShake · 17/04/2016 15:24

I think if the word "partner" doesn't include a husband, his wife may be advised to reconsider her marriage ...

EBearhug · 17/04/2016 15:26

I work in HR. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Don't you include preferred title on forms? And if not, is it very difficult to ask, "can you confirm your preferred title?"

crazyhead · 17/04/2016 15:28

But tessa - one of the big differences of titles and the simple fact of being married is that it provides info about you that isn't provided about a man. My organisation has so much evidence that your chances in jobs, say, are affected by perceived ethnicity, gender etc that they've had to anonymise applications. If you're a 'mrs' of a certain age say, you lay yourself open to employers asking when babies will happen. Men don't face this, and men are doing strikingly better than women in work as their careers progress.

Forming a relationship is not the same as being mandated to publically declare it through a title in contexts where you are proven to be at a disadvantage. If you don't care about that personally that's up to you but it isn't trivial.

Petal02 · 17/04/2016 15:28

This is an amazing thread! Makes me wonder if the OP is slightly ashamed of being married?

An earlier poster pondered why we should give doctors a title, ie should we refer to a doctor as his/her Christian name, rather than Dr Smith. IMO, if someone's survived medical school and passed all their placements, then I'm fully in board with recognising that achievement!

BertrandRussell · 17/04/2016 15:28

"Things like this should be changed when a specific request is made Yes, and I'm sure it will be when the OP asks.". But the point is that it was changed without her asking! An assumption was made.....

Incidentally, all husbands are partners- or should be- but not all partners are husbands.......

OneMagnumisneverenough · 17/04/2016 15:30

As far as I can see, the OP did not give her title to HR, she happened to mention she was married in conversation. HR wrote out using Mrs and OP is raging about it.

In the circles I mix in the vast majority of married/divorced/widowed women use Mrs so statistically they were probably on the ball. It may obviously be different depending on what circles you mix in. If it was a standard letter the issuer may have had no option other than to put a title in. Some people who use Mrs would be annoyed if they got a letter sent to Ms. Some people are annoyed if it's the other way around. Surely the only way to resolve this is to have no titles at all. Some people would then be annoyed if the letter was addressed Dear "firstname"though.

To be so angry about something like this is really weird. If you requested they change it and they told you that since you were married you had to be Mrs is different and worth being angry about. Otherwise meh!

shillwheeler · 17/04/2016 15:31

YABNU, but as others have said, I would just send the email and move on. But make it clear how you want to be known in future.

HR may just have made a mistake. More likely, it is an ingrained unexamined assumption (casual sexism). They should have asked (or used the name and title you put on the application form). But they didn't. It's no big deal, but (and it's a big but) they wouldn't make this type of assumption, or mistake, if you were a man. (To be fair on HR, it can get confusing, as this thread has demonstrated, there are a multiplicity of views and preferences on name changes on marriage...if you're a woman.)

Be firm, be polite. And repeat as necessary. Don't get wound up.

Sadly, this will probably not be the only time you experience this type of thing.

I have kept my maiden name for professional purposes, always used "Ms" but fifteen years after getting married some people (close family included) still don't get it.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 17/04/2016 15:32

But the point is that it was changed without her asking!

Unless I have missed something, and apologies if I have, but they haven't "changed" anything have they? It's true they did make an assumption and probably a statistically correct one but that happens not to be what the OP prefers.

Original poster
SpaceCadet4000 · 17/04/2016 15:33

Petal now that is goady- I'm most certainly not ashamed of being married, what a disgusting thing to assume.

However, as PP has rightly stated- I am a married woman of a certain age. A few of my friends have been asked by employers when they'll be having babies. I separate my marital status from my work because I do not think it's right that anyone can make assumptions about my life based on a title.

OP posts:
Petal02 · 17/04/2016 15:35

I'm starting to wonder if I'm somehow letting the side down by calling myself Mrs? There's nothing wrong with Ms, but Mrs is surely fine too, if that's what you prefer?

Petal02 · 17/04/2016 15:36

OP - I'm not trying to be goady, but I'm curious that something must underpin the strength of your objection to an innocuous admin error?

OneMagnumisneverenough · 17/04/2016 15:38

Petal, yes it is. Surely freedom of choice is what it's all supposed to be about but some woman can make you feel as if it's not okay to be the type of woman you want to be and it's only ok to be like them.

As a mother of boys, I am actually astounded by the sexism that thrown in their direction so it's by no means a one way street.

sleeponeday · 17/04/2016 15:43

I'm starting to wonder if I'm somehow letting the side down by calling myself Mrs? There's nothing wrong with Ms, but Mrs is surely fine too, if that's what you prefer?

Has anyone said differently? I don't see anything wrong with anyone being called by their preferred title. (I was brought up in a religious tradition that disagrees with all titles, on equality grounds, so to be honest they all sound equally barking and pointless to me... I mean, why does anyone have one, really, when you stop to think about it? What are they for, that is useful?) What does matter is not making assumptions, or belittling anyone else for their choices. IMHO, anyway.

Original poster
SpaceCadet4000 · 17/04/2016 15:45

From a young age I was aware that I was treated differently to men as a result of being female, Petal. I have an educational background in STEM, so have been made acutely aware in many situations that I'm in the minority. There are life events which have strengthened my resolve, but those are personal and completely unrelated to my marriage or relationship.

I personally don't see it as an innocuous admin error- it would be that if I'd ticked the box on a form. The fact is, they have a database which records and uses the titles of employees, yet they leave no space for employees to designate their title. I don't think this is good HR practice in the modern world.

In my case, it's just undermining a choice I care about. In another case (e.g. a trans person), making an assumption could be much more offensive.

OP posts:
LikeDylanInTheMovies · 17/04/2016 16:00

This is an amazing thread! Makes me wonder if the OP is slightly ashamed of being married?

I really don't know how you came to this conclusion, the OP doesn't feel that her status should be defined by her relationship to a man.

As a married man, the titles that I use (Mr and Dr) give no indication of my marital status, does that make me slightly ashamed of being married?

EBearhug · 17/04/2016 16:02

HR may just have made a mistake. More likely, it is an ingrained unexamined assumption (casual sexism). They should have asked (or used the name and title you put on the application form). But they didn't. It's no big deal, but (and it's a big but) they wouldn't make this type of assumption, or mistake, if you were a man.

Ingrained, unexamined assumptions which are casual sexism isn't a big deal? Pay gap, lack of women on boards etc would suggest otherwise. Many of these things in isolation are not a big deal - but there is a cumulative effect which holds women back.

TeatimeForTheSoul · 17/04/2016 16:03

Well said OP!

Petal As you are happy to give medical practitioners the Hobart title of Dr (they usually only have undergraduate degrees in the country) does this also relate to Vets and architects (harder courses). Plus do you insist on Dr for those who have earned it by right i.e. those with doctorates (PhD, MD etc)?

Personally I would be happy to address someone by their preferred title wether it's Mr, Ms, Master, Miss, Dr, Rev o r hell-raiser. I just expect others to respect my preference and beliefs too.

PurpleDaisies · 17/04/2016 16:04

I use Dr nor Mrs. I am most certainly not ashamed of being married.

Depressingly when dh and I are out for dinner, the waiter almost always turns to him when they see Dr Purple on the credit card.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 17/04/2016 16:07

Depressingly when dh and I are out for dinner, the waiter almost always turns to him when they see Dr Purple on the credit card.

Or maybe it has nothing to do with that and more to do with another old fashioned assumption that the man at the table is paying for the meal?

PurpleDaisies · 17/04/2016 16:08

Either way magnum it's pretty crap.

PurpleDaisies · 17/04/2016 16:09

I've also had to correct letters addressed to dr and Mrs purple not dr and mr. This has happened more than once...

crispytruffle · 17/04/2016 16:11

Get a grip. Seriously....some people didn't wake up this morning.

228agreenend · 17/04/2016 16:12

Furious - not sure if you interpreted my post about John Lewis as attacking you. It wasn't meant to be so sorry if you thought so. I was only trying to explain that traditionally Mr and Mrs John Smith was a common way of addressing envelopes etc. It's generally considered outmoded nowadays. I'm aware that there is a lot of much younger people on mn who may not be aware of this tradition, hence my post.

lorelei9here · 17/04/2016 16:18

Petal, so you assume men who go by the title Mr are ashamed of being married and you think that's why men never created a title to show their marital status?

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