To be angry HR made this (relatively minor) assumption?

[SpaceCadet4000]

My DH and I got married last August. I made the decision to keep my surname and continue to use the title Ms. I don't mind if other people choose to change their name, but I personally am uncomfortable with the historical and gendered connotations of name changing. This have never been an issue- I just select the Ms box when filling in forms, and I don't shout about it to other people.

However, I have recently started a new job. On my second day I went for my induction with HR where they collected details about my next of kin (mentioned it was my husband as they needed the relationship stated), whether I wanted a pension, my NI number etc. All fairly innocuous, and actually very little form filling on my part, and certainly no disclosure of my title.

As I joined close to payday I received my pay check late through the post- it's addressed to Mrs Space Cadet. This suggests that the HR advisor has clearly assumed I'm a Mrs based on our conversation.

It's minor, and I assume fairly quick to rectify, but I feel really angry that someone else has made this decision about me. I'm no special snowflake, but I'm dismayed that my identity has been so casually undermined. The office culture is fairly conservative, so I also feel like I'll be judged as an SJW for asking for it to be changed.

AIBU to just email them and ask for it to be changed?

Tessabelle - men have never been expected to change their name on marriage. How does applying exactly the same rule to women make marriage outdated? The legal status marriage confers is still pretty useful as far as I can see.

Ms generally assumed to be a 'rabid, militant, feminist type who has an axe to grind' or a divorcee. WTF?

For all those mentioning that this is a first world problem, I have started a thread trying to address a 3rd world problem - and, up to now, there hasn't been a single response.

This has reminded me of my booking in appointment 22 years ago.

Midwife "do you have a partner"
Me "no"
Midwife "have you thought about dealing with the baby on your own"
Me "no, why would I do that"
Midwife: "because you don't have a partner"
Me "No, I have a husband, that's why you wrote Mrs on the form"
Midwife "we can't make assumptions it upsets women who aren't married. That's why we don't really use titles any more..
Me: But if I've put Mrs on the form because you asked
Midwife: "anyway, you need to see the Dr as you are high risk, I'll just see if Miss Jones is available"
Me "what's the doctor's name"
Midwife "it's Miss Jones"
Me: "but you don't use titles any more"
Doctor arrives
Doctor "hello Beau I'm Miss Jones"
Me "I didn't catch your name"
Doctor "It's Miss Jones"
Me "Then I think it's Mrs Belle please"
Dr "oh, you can call me Nicola"

That's what gives me the rage and it's an equality issue. Anybody who expects me to use their title, any title, needs to use mine as well to indicate society and they afford me the same level of respect as it affords them. I'm always very clear about my preferred title, correcting incorrect forms and adding it where it isn't included. It isn't negotiable and to address another human as a subordinate is the height of arrogance. On the whole it happens only in hospitals, mainly NHS ones. To me it represents an embedded culture of disempowerment if the patient. If one party to a conversation has and expects their title to be used then it is the most basic courtesy to use the other person's. I always question this and the most usual response is that it's so hard to know how ladies like to be addressed. Then ask. "I'm Dr Jones, what would you like me to call you". FWIW I dislike using a nurse's first name too. Why should I not call the nurse Miss, Ms, Mrs or Mr when I am expected to use the doctor's title. The nurse is no less equal as a human being.

Tessabelle74 - because like many other people who decide to get married my DH and I love each other deeply and want to remain together for a very long time

Breadandwine, let me help you out by posting the rest of selective quote that you WTF?'ed at:

^ the connotations it has (unfairly).

Ms generally assumed to be a 'rabid, militant, feminist type who has an axe to grind' or a divorcee.

Totally unfair and misrepresentative, but it is an assumption held nonetheless.^

May I point out my use of the words 'unfairly', 'totally unfair', and 'misrepresentative'.

HTH!

I continue to be really surprised why any adult woman would want to be anything but ms - I have been since
since my teens. For me 'miss' is either a child or a term used by a leering Benny Hill figure to a (leers) 'young lady' and Mrs is tmi. Obviously my friends and close colleagues know I'm married, but why would I want to say that in a job application? It means people are able to speculate and make assumptions on aspects of my life in a way that would never happen to my husband. I'd find it bizarre if he had a title that showed he was married in that way! Clearly people feel differently but I'll never get it.

I can't tell if some of the posters on here are being deliberately goady or are just incredibly unenlightened...

You know Samuel there is a joke that a black woman wakes up in the morning and looks in the mirror, and sees a black woman. A white woman wakes up, and sees a woman. And a white man wakes up, looks in his mirror, and sees a human being.

Your post ignores (perhaps you don't notice?) that almost all movies and TV shows still have male protagonists, are written from a male perspective, directed and produced by men, and made by male production companies. Journalism, ditto. Most politicians and senior civil servants are male, most senior executives in major companies, most judges and senior lawyers. The world is still largely constructed and run by men. Even when women have made huge contributions, they tend to be overlooked, or even ignored (women scientists, where the contributions made are recorded and their being suppressed is thus provable, are an interesting example). And when a woman indicates, actually in quite in a small way, that an example of the casual, constant and systematic sexism she constantly encounters annoys her, you feel the need to post at some length insisting that she is irrational, strident, foolish, and nobody sensible could possibly mind. She minds. And I see no evidence from your post that you are more sensible or reasonable. In fact, quite frankly, the opposite. Saying you'd be happy if a male equivalent existed is to blithely ignore the social context ensuring that it doesn't. Which is her whole point.

And this: I do not believe that irrational anger at society helps anyone's cause, least of all your own. is the response feminists have been given down the generations. Manages to tell women simultaneously that they're being hysterical and there is no problem, and that men society won't give them what they want, so she's not helping her own cause by being strident.

Great post Sleep.

I'm neither Furious, just genuinely confused! You can stay together without marriage, you can also get all the legal protection afforded by marriage by visiting a solicitor and drawing up documents pertaining to wills etc. I can't however understand why you'd consider the name change part of marriage out dated but not the ACTUAL marriage?

Hmm, so telling people who either like being Mrs or don't care are "unenlightened" isn't goady then?

Surely the whole point of equality should be that people can choose what they prefer. i can't see that being told what you should do/think by a woman is any better than being told the same by a man. It's still bullying and unnecessary. It seems to be that sometimes being a feminist is another way to try and outdo men at being a man.

:D Sleep, fantastic!

Love sleep's post.

Agree with Magnum that it is somewhat ironic that women are berating other women for being 'unenlightened' or 'goady' purely because their opinion differs.

It is like trying to have a discussion or debate with a man...

Tessabelle re: wills etc, you're correct. However, this isn't true across the board. In our situation, we could not get the same protection. My DH is here on a work visa; he's a foreign citizen. Should that work visa be revoked, he would be deported. He's still on a work visa, but if the worse happens, we are now protected by the fact we're married.

All of that is independent of our reasons for getting married. There's an inherent symbolism in it which doesn't necessarily need to be sexist. We chose to conduct our vows in a way that eschewed traditions we did not like (e.g. I didn't wear an engagement ring, nor did my father give me away). Me remaining a Ms and keeping my birth name is a continuation of this.

sleep brilliant looks like w sone will continue to fight for equality while others will accept any victories with disdain and claim there was never an issue anyway.

belle this may have happened as a person chiding to call themselves Mrs may be divorced and no one has the right to probe marital status. So in respecting your privacy will always refer to 'partner' (no gender or type of union bias). As for using titles I completely agree. I always introduce myself by forename and ask how patient would like to addressed as I find some in older generations are more comfortable with formal titles.

*choosing not chiding

Tessabelle Marriage is not about a change of name. In fact there isn't anywhere on the marriage certificate to record any changes to the name you wish to use in the future.

Marriage gives more legal protection than simply going to a solicitor to draw up documents can provide. And there are many other reasons why people want to get married.

228agreenend Sun 17-Apr-16 13:11:19
Furious - addressing something as Mr and Mrs John Smith is a long established convention

But you are only supposed to use this convention if you haven't already been told how the people wish to be addressed. If you've been told the wife has not changed her name, then addressing a card, etc, to Mr and Mrs John Smith is not correct.

The trouble with Ms is I never know how it is pronounced. muzz?

I've always pronounced it Mizz (to rhyme with Fizz)

Annoying and irritating in this day and age- but an e mail requesting it to be changed should be sufficient, then move on and use your energy for more important stuff!

Tessabelle If you want to use 'Mrs' in the traditional sense, you give up your whole name. So e.g. you wouldn't be Mrs Jane Smith, you'd be Mrs John Smith. I'd imagine very few people would be comfortable with this nowadays. Even most of those who want to use 'Mrs' as their title would expect to keep using their first name in conjunction with this title.

Marriage is cheaper than sorting out the equivalent legal protection separately, so it still makes sense for lots of people.

I work in HR. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If you had wanted to be referred to as Mrs and assumed this would be picked up from a conversation but wasn't, this would've been wrong too. Sigh!!

Lala105 so are you saying all HR forms should have an option to choose preferred title? If so, I completely agree.

From personal opinion I think it's keys people's assumptions. I have been widowed 10 years but still vehemently use the title "Mrs". When my DCs started school I was referred to by many teachers as "Miss Rabbit". So I corrected them....and still they called me Miss. After the last time and me getting a tad annoyed I said, "Actually it's Mrs....I am MRS RABBIT!!!". The teacher looked at me strangely and said "oh I'm sorry, as you don't wear a wedding ring we assumed you were unmarried." It's on my right hand.....common practice among widows I believe!!

" If you had wanted to be referred to as Mrs and assumed this would be picked up from a conversation but wasn't, this would've been wrong too. Sigh!!" No that wouldn't have been wrong. She would have been wildly unreasonable to expect that to be picked up from casual conversation. Things like this should be changed when a specific request is made. Not by guesses or assumptions on either side.

One and Mrs - that isn't what I said

I was thinking about the poster upthread who attacked me, calling into question the fact that John Lewis had taken it upon themselves to change my name for me. Apparently I'm not normal as I refuse to be called Mrs! Given the context of this thread, yes, I do think that comment was goady. And there's a huge difference between acknowledging that people have a choice of salutation and saying that being called Mrs is the norm - hence my comment re being unenlightened.

Tess - I don't see what you're getting at, at all. And by your logic, it should be equally acceptable for a man to take his wife's name upon marriage.