To be angry to find so many threads on fights regarding house chores

[Valentine2]

I think it should be regarded a national emergency considering the distress it's causing to at least half the population (women mostly) and definitely the stress extends to men.
MNHQ and JUSTINE
see I think we can actually use Mumsnet as a platform for starting a campaign for this? It can involve academics, funding (Mumsnet can help with that perhaps?) and of course lots of coverage/campaign in media.
I do think that if we are finding this level of stress among mothers and women in general, it is something that must be discussed in an organised way.

I can't think of anything more ridiculous than government guidelines for house work.

Especially based on how much energy someone has or has used.

If there are 2 adults in the house hold, there equal amounts of time. They should be splitting the work between them. Regardless of how much energy they have used.

They should respect each other enough to do half of the jobs that run their household. Some jobs can wait if one or both is knackered.

It doesn't need government intervention. Or an equation working it out. It's about respect. If you partner doesn't respect you that's the problem not the housework.

Yes, I received your message, and I stand by my original point that you have no way of measuring the concept you are describing, and in fact haven't even defined the basic premise or terms.

Sparkling, it should be the norm, and from my pov it's not, and you ARE lucky. Many couples I know, from the most intelligent and educated, to the least, have massive and unsatisfactory disparities in their relationships. With quite a few, the women are the ones pulling far more than their weight and have chosen to believe that this is what marriage is, the price you pay if you like.

When I was growing up, most women were SAHMs. My mum worked because she was a 'career girl' and because extended family could look after me and my siblings when we weren't at school (including being at home when we got in from school). My father was made redundant when I was 7 or so, and was out of work for years. He didn't pick up on the childcare or housework at all. He and mum were simply not of that generation, though it was early - mid 60s by then.

I had expected things to have moved completely away from sort of overt sexism, and to a great extent it has. However, I have found that there are still far too many men who think that WOH is enough of a contribution, and there are still far too many women who will acquiesce to that view.

It is a scandal and we should be ashamed on a societal level.

So if that is the case what's the answer Boat? What the OP is suggesting?

Society in general hasn't accepted true relationship respect and equality and still has a way to go in terms of awareness.
It doesn't mean the OP has the answer.

It's very hard to judge how many couples have an unequal work load as people may have the same set up yet experience it differently. Some are happy with the "I do all the laundry and cooking but he looks after the car" approach, so will not report this as being unequal (which it is unless you have a very demanding car!)

Purple daisies
You and me are very lucky that it's our normal

I have a great relationship with my husband and I feel lucky to have met someone I get along with so well. But the situation with the housework is nothing to do with luck-we both agreed that we would be a team to get everything that needs to be done sorted in the best way possible. Sometimes that's me doing more cleaning, sometimes he's done everything. Government guidelines would not have helped us in the slightest.

What's made the difference is we have both been raised to see housework as something that needs doing by whoever is best able to do it-not to assume by default that it's women's work. Making it socially unacceptable for men to take advantage of women in this way will help couples achieve a fairer balance if the woman is being unfairly put upon. Women do have to be prepared to stand up for themselves in this respect. Hopefully the next generation of boys will see both parents pulling together to get the housework done, and be even more likely to take an active role at home than today's generation of men.

By calling it luck that you ended up in a relationship with a person who treats you as an equal, I think you are removing any idea of there being choice, judgement or discrimination in your selection of a partner.
You make it sound like two random bits of flotsam that ended up on the same beach by luck.
It's not luck, it's way more active than that.

Yes there is more to it than luck but even that is a first world problem comparatively. How easy it is for women to find men like that in for everyone Everywhere? It's unfair to say we worked hard just because we were born here and had the choice to do so and our parents happened to know what hey we're teaching us. Yes we did work hard to figure out the persons we married but millions don't get that choice. They are the unlucky ones.

I had a friend whose DP did absolutely nothing in the home although she worked full time and he was a student, nearly always at home. Her way of dealing with it was to do as little as possible. Result: every flat they lived in smelled rancid (they had two moggies, which didn't help). I would have dumped him.

It's unfair to say we worked hard just because we were born here and had the choice to do so and our parents happened to know what hey we're teaching us.
I can't follow what you're trying to say with this. Could you reword it more clearly?

Yes we did work hard to figure out the persons we married but millions don't get that choice. They are the unlucky ones.
Are you alluding to forced marriage? I don't understand how that's relevant to the division of chores and energy levels study you've been proposing in this thread.

Ilovesooty
Lol. I agree I might have given a crap answer. But I hope everyone tries and understand that

1. There is a really big problem that we still have to answer and since its there, there is a chance our current approach towards guiding the younger generation isn't working enough.
2. There is a significant difference between the strength/power/energy men and women have every day and there are times in every household when one person or both are extremely tired in their own eyes and in reality too and there is a huge amount of work left to be done . But there is no way to honestly verify who is more true and things get biased against women.
3. So there must be a basic understanding among men anot how and why women could be more tired at that time than them and it would be great if we start teaching it as part of curriculum or at least some guidelines somewhere that we could refer to(we do have sex education etc and so why not this?)

I don't think my relationships imbalance came about until we had kids. So things were split fairly evenly while we were both FT. I couldn't really have foreseen how things have turned out.

Purpledaisies
By that I meant to say that w shave one hell of a lot of opportunities in his country for women and the society is far more advanced to accept their equality here. But there are millions or more in other countries who are facing hardships because they were born there and not here. And yes I am alluding to that and more. Some poster here has just said that they have seen people from all walks of life , educated and uneducated alike who go through this. At least if we have some form of education about how our bodies cope we could pass it to the ones who were not raised like us and help them fight? I think its hard for people to understand just by using moral arguments etc. It's like the alcohol limit for driving. Or something like that?
Sorry I am multitasking since afternoon and haven't been able to even read once before posting. (No irony there )

There is a significant difference between the strength/power/energy men and women have every day and there are times in every household when one person or both are extremely tired in their own eyes and in reality too and there is a huge amount of work left to be done . But there is no way to honestly verify who is more true and things get biased against women.

Some men view housework as "women's work", totally regardless of how tired or not their wife is. An objective measurement of who is tireder is a) impossible and b) irrelevant be a use men who don't think it's their job to clean up won't do it anyway.

not for this generation. I agree this generation is past that may be. But for the next generation, we could try and teach them that both genders can have different vulnerability levels at different times over the decades they will be spending together.

Polly
Yes that exactly. I have seen women sleep walking into this.

we could try and teach them that both genders can have different vulnerability levels at different times over the decades they will be spending together.

I absolutely do not want women being taught they are more vulnerable than men. I want them to be taught that they have the right not to be treated as domestic servants and that normal relationships involve partnership. Men should be see that modern women do not just assume the role of housekeeper. Housework is to be worked out to the satisfaction of both people in the couple.

Sparkling I didn't read the initial post you made to have the OP and BoatyMcBoat call you lucky, but going from the basis of the thread I'm assuming it was that there is an equal share of the housework in your household? I don't consider that luck. Luck is winning the lottery, it's not a husband that does his share, nor is it dcs that also muck in. It's a sorry state when we start likening basic day-to-day chores as luck. And why is it that the woman should be the lucky one Boaty doesn't that go against the very "overt sexism" you'd like to see society counter?

I absolutely do not want women being taught they are more vulnerable than men

Neither do I . Women have to fight hard enough to be respected in some employment sectors now.

' Women have to fight hard enough to be respected in some employment sectors now.'

The argument that women weren't strong enough, physically or emotionally to do a man's job was a battle we had to fight throughout the 60s and 70s, and it was tough for those women in traditionally male roles and for girls aspiring to break out of gender roles.
My father would completely understand that women get more tired than men, that's why they should be in the home doing easy work and men should be out earning a living and providing. Or if a woman had a job, it shouldn't be anything too taxing.
I'd hate to see that attitude, and the misogyny that went with it have a resurgence.

You have written exactly what's annoying me about this thread solitary-the op seems to want equality for women through their "weakness" and "vulnerability" in not being able to complete all the housework due to "lesser power/strength/energy levels". I want it because it is morally right that both partners share the chores in a way that benefits both of them.

It's probably because we are Old School Feminists.

Guess that's me too then, Solitary. If this is the new wave I'm not sure I'll sign up.

Anything after the early 80s just confuses me really, I'm set where I was when I was in my early 20s.
Don't shag a bloke if you don't want to, don't live with a bloke who doesn't do his fair share or who wants to mold you into the image he prefers, don't marry a man who wants you to be the little woman and care for him as if he was a child, don't have children with someone who doesn't see them as a shared project.
I realise that many others make different choices, but I can only understand my own fully.