To be angry to find so many threads on fights regarding house chores

[Valentine2]

I think it should be regarded a national emergency considering the distress it's causing to at least half the population (women mostly) and definitely the stress extends to men.
MNHQ and JUSTINE
see I think we can actually use Mumsnet as a platform for starting a campaign for this? It can involve academics, funding (Mumsnet can help with that perhaps?) and of course lots of coverage/campaign in media.
I do think that if we are finding this level of stress among mothers and women in general, it is something that must be discussed in an organised way.

Fairnitfair
I have no solid picture of it but I think there are ways to do it. I will out myself for sure if I tried to write here though that is not ideal

cookdiary.net/wp-content/uploads/images/Lemon-Cheesecake_1693.jpg

But I honestly want to know how much energy (percentage wise) does each person use in working for their family?

100%. Not only am I the only one going out to work and paying the bills, I do ALL the housework around here. It's not fair - why should I have to just because I'm single? we need a LAW!

Mrs
That's rude honestly. I think there is a problem and even if my idea is stupid and all that, you have no right to call me third rate etc. And no I am not an academic either . I am just someone who has a lot of free time right now to be on Mumsnet and got pissed off by the umpteenth thread on an issue we obviously have. You don't need to come here if you don't like my argument.

My point is: women are burning far more energy than men if you consider physical strength , toll of pregnancy and child birth/feeding/care and multitasking. In the name of equality too.

So you mean women with children? Not everyone has a child.

National guidelines on how couples should split their housework is a ridiculous waste of money. Every single household will be different with different tone pressures, financial pressures and responsibilities. The only thing people need to know is don't live with a bastard who takes advantage of you.

'we need a LAW!'

Or a borrowing library where you can test out partners and return them.

People are allowed to say they don't like your argument, you know.

Solitarywanderer
Oh last night I got to see Tom Hardy here and cheese cake along with some good old AIBU love. I adore Mumsnet . Thank you thank you

So that's someone else whose posts you're complaining about. There are talk guidelines. There's a report system. Just use it if you think someone has said something unacceptable.

Just because you can't understand how it can be done, doesn't mean it can't be done

Actually I understand how it can't be done. And since you refuse to state where you would even start, I think you know that too.

Ilovesooty
Reporting is too much. I am neither third rate and certainly not an academic. So why go to that measure. Actually reporting looks to me like I am complaining to my elders about someone fighting with me rather than dealing with it myself. IYSWIM. But I really loved that I was able to vent it here. May be it is a good idea or may be bad. It's just an idea in the end. Not the end of the world. So why report.

Tigger
I don't want to out myself. I have written so much around here that I suspect some even know who I am and I will hate that. Urrghhh

Well expect people to disagree with you and argue your case objectively without whining about people being "rude" and "not nice".

So have you actually asked Justine and MNHQ to get behind this?

If she sees some high profile scientist some time and say to her/him that there was this really stupid idea by an angry mums-nutter and they go on and look it up then why not? There are extremely intelligent people in UK. I really don't have access to such people. And Mumsnet has contacted academics before for us. Though I agree that issue (academies thread) is indeed a proper national emergency 😂

I don't want to out myself. I have written so much around here that I suspect some even know who I am and I will hate that. Urrghhh

That's a convenient way to not admit that you haven't the first idea how you would design the study, or make a measurement of it.

Even if you could it makes no difference. The kind of people who might objectively measure who is more tired and who is more able to do the chores are not the people fighting over housework in the first place.
AND on top of that, there is so much more to it than who is the most tired or not! What if I'm tired all the time and DH has more energy? So he should go to work, and then come home and do all of the chores and the shopping and the childcare? While I lie down because I'm tired?

There isn't a single part of your idea that isn't downright silly.

There have been numerous studies of the division in household chores.
I studied it as part of my degree.
The studies all show that women do the bulk of household chores, particularly the repetitive boring ones like laundry and cleaning. (Studies conducted in UK, Canada, USA and Australia)
Men are doing more cooking but this is because they see it as "enjoyable". Dull stuff like hoovering and dusting and tidying is mainly done by women.
The issue is that even if the woman is in full time work she still does the bulk of the household chores.
Studies have also shown that men are more likely to spend money on their hobbies than women.
Studies of couples without children show men do less, studies of women who have just had children show massive resentment at the fact they have just noticed their husband does bugger all. This noticing is mainly due to the massive work increase that a baby brings so that suddenly the woman is over whelmed rather than trotting along.
Studies have shown that men doing less is considered normal as it is women's work and that women will "naturally be better at child care" so should do the bulk of that too.
An interesting study was done on couples who had deliberately gone out of their way to be fair and equal in chores and childcare discovered that those couple had experienced a lot of negative comments form family about how "unnatural" it was and also that the men had accepted that wanting to come home and be with their kids would be career limiting. Many didn't mention that they went home early to see their kids in case they were perceived as being less committed to their job.

A further investigation into the concept of "fairness" found that women will accept doing the bulk of the work if they feel this is appreciated by their partner.
Men who denied that there was a problem with them doing no housework had the most stressed and unhappy wives.

Conclusions were that: society expected women to do more housework and actively punished those that bucked the trend. Manifestations being accusations of being "unnatural", criticism for having hobbies, suggestions of being a "bad mother" etc. Interesting, the MIL was the most likely critic followed by work colleagues.
There were also conclusions that although society spoke of "women's choices" the women were effectively isolated by the definition that housework and child care as being the woman's problem to solve on her own and the male input was zero.
This left some women who wanted to have an equal relationship completely stuffed by the fact the man refused to do anything. The mechanisms a woman has for forcing her partner to do housework and childcare is almost zero - hence the growing unhappiness of women who have non participating partners. She has no way to get him to do stuff and the man knows it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I don't think that HQ will be contacting anyone to discuss researching national housework guidelines.

Speaking as an academic, I think we would all agree that our energy levels are severely affected by high marking loads, long hours and the dreaded REF. So the first thing such a study would demonstrate is that we are all let off the housework. Suits me.

Me neither Rafals.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I don't think that HQ will be contacting anyone to discuss researching national housework guidelines.
agreed.

An interesting study was done on couples who had deliberately gone out of their way to be fair and equal in chores and childcare discovered that those couple had experienced a lot of negative comments form family about how "unnatural" it was and also that the men had accepted that wanting to come home and be with their kids would be career limiting. Many didn't mention that they went home early to see their kids in case they were perceived as being less committed to their job

Was that the UK? I've worked in Denmark and the men I worked with had no problem saying they were leaving early because they and their wives split the childcare 50/50 and this was their week to pick the kids up from school. In fact they regarded it as natural that men should do an equal share and didn't have any problem with that.

Tigger
You really want me to write how I will measure it, don't you? From constructing an initial hypotheses to starting to measure it, I think I have at least the initial idea. How about we meet somewhere in person so I could see who and what you are? Rather than outing myself to my real life friends here, this looks better to me?

But you have said one really important thing: it's an unimportant issue for people who actually can do it in reality.
And if you are that kind of tired, it is definitely something you and DH need to address immediately. Again, we do consider disabilities etc (indirectly energy and efficiency measurement afterall?). In real life I have seen such couples and they are facing big troubles because it's hard for people who are not scientists to understand why and how can someone be that kind of tired and it leads to arguments. So I think they do need this kind of help.

I don't understand how posting a potential methodology for a study outs you to family and friends.

There is a miraculous invention called a "private message" you could send if you're worried.

I don't need a full research proposal, an inkling that you have even a vague notion of how such a thing could be measured would do. How do you imagine you could control the endless variables for a self-perception of tiredness, and account for the constantly changing nature of the feelings involved? AND then make it to a useable daily metric?

Nope, I don't think so. You couldn't possibly get any kind of reliable and valid accuracy on this.