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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be angry to find so many threads on fights regarding house chores

266 replies

Valentine2 · 16/04/2016 12:38

I think it should be regarded a national emergency considering the distress it's causing to at least half the population (women mostly) and definitely the stress extends to men.
MNHQ and JUSTINE
see I think we can actually use Mumsnet as a platform for starting a campaign for this? It can involve academics, funding (Mumsnet can help with that perhaps?) and of course lots of coverage/campaign in media.
I do think that if we are finding this level of stress among mothers and women in general, it is something that must be discussed in an organised way.

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PurpleDaisies · 16/04/2016 15:17

In real life I have seen such couples and they are facing big troubles because it's hard for people who are not scientists to understand why and how can someone be that kind of tired and it leads to arguments.

Seriously? You have friends who don't get that people can be extremely tired because that aren't scientists?

ZsaZsa1954 · 16/04/2016 15:18

Why is tiredness your measure for doing or not doing chores? I'm wondering instead you don't do some work on couples not communicating with each other over this issue - because that's what is at the bottom of arguments about this.

Valentine2 · 16/04/2016 15:18

Mylife
See you know this much because it's something you studied part of your degree and I don't have access to that kind of information because I didn't have access to it and there is no guidelines/websites that highlight it at a level where everyone has access to it. We have NHS website that we refer to when we wish to find about basic medical info. Why don't we have that for all these issues that are putting so much pressure on women in general? Why can't that be funded? May be Mumsnet can make a section and catalogue all these there.
Can you please send them to me or post here ? Some links to those articles. Sorry it's a very big Favor I am asking for. I would be very grateful

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TheSolitaryWanderer · 16/04/2016 15:19

'it's hard for people who are not scientists to understand why and how can someone be that kind of tired and it leads to arguments'

Now that I have to take exception to. Scientists are some of the very poorest at dealing with hidden disabilities and the effect they have on someone's energy, fitness and wellbeing, because it can't be statistically categorised.
So when dealing with depression, ASDs and other invisible illnesses, science is often useless.
Understanding within a family often comes from love, compassion and acceptance that the individual isn't lying when they say they can't cope. Not from 'buy according to the studies...

curren · 16/04/2016 15:19

Ffs.

Some couples fall out over hosted old chores so we should spend a load of money figuring out energy levels?

Not likely.

As far as I can see, in couples I know, there are loads of different reasons people fall out about house work. Non of it to do with energy levels.

It's total bollocks. And if you can't talk to your OH about things like and your OH doesn't care you aren't happy about the way things are, you have far bigger problems that who did the washing up.

Also 'same amount of free time' is ok. Generally. When it becomes 'well you had two hours and I only had 1hour 45 so I want 15 more minutes' it's headings for disaster.

Couples need to sort housework issues out like they would any other issue.

singingsixpence82 · 16/04/2016 15:20

I haven't read the whole thread - sorry! But I have been thinking along the same lines but just about the general inequality that exists in most modern relationships, around chores but many other things. There are thousands of studies on this - from what I've read 9 out of 10 marriages are grossly unequal with the woman doing the lion's share of all the work but that also includes things like "emotion work" - the business of looking after the wellbeing of others, organising children's social lives etc, talking through family problems with family members.

Read Wifework, it does a good job of arguing that inequality within relationships is still endemic but also explains how many women rationalise this and convince themselves that their relationships aren't unequal or are less unequal than most peoples' and that they therefore have it good. I don't think this level of inequality would be accepted in any other sphere but it is in the domestic one and I personally think a campaign would be wonderful.

TheSolitaryWanderer · 16/04/2016 15:20

A spelling mistake!
{'m getting over-involved!
Time for some chanting...Smile

PurpleDaisies · 16/04/2016 15:20

We have NHS website that we refer to when we wish to find about basic medical info. Why don't we have that for all these issues that are putting so much pressure on women in general?

Can you honestly not see the difference between medical treatment (which is standard) and division of housework which is individual to every single household?

Valentine2 · 16/04/2016 15:20

I am going to send a private message to you Tigger. Pls don't post it here or any reference to it either.

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AdrenalineFudge · 16/04/2016 15:21

it's hard for people who are not scientists to understand why and how can someone be that kind of tired and it leads to arguments

A person needs a science-based qualification to understand how tiredness works? Which particular discipline would you recommend?

To be fair to you, I have seen more ridiculous research proposals receive funding so you might very well find a fool with some money.

ilovesooty · 16/04/2016 15:22

Well said curren

TheSolitaryWanderer · 16/04/2016 15:22

I think WifeWork is a great book.

Valentine2 · 16/04/2016 15:25

Solitary wanderer
I think your arguments are so clear.

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corythatwas · 16/04/2016 15:33

As others have said, the problem with tiredness levels is that they have to be self reported: you can measure e.g. if somebody is anaemic or has some other condition which might be expected to affect their energy levels, but with two healthy people there are no measurements other than what they say they feel.

Now it seems perfectly clear that if you have two people faced with a household chore the person who will claim that s/he is most tired will be the one who wants the other person to do it. If s/he is willing to do the task, s/he will just get on and do it and you don't need the whole tiredness discussion.

We can probably also regard it as pretty common knowledge that the person who is most likely to experience household tasks as inordinately tiring is the person who thinks that s/he should not be the person to do them, that they are below his dignity, that they lie within the remit of the other person.

In other words, in households where at least one person has a sexist attitude towards household tasks, self reported tiredness levels are bound to fail. Doing something you don't want to makes you tired. Does that mean you should never have to?

People also have different pain thresholds and again this cannot be measured. And given that your pain threshold is something that one can to some extent work on (CBT has done wonders for my dd and the sheer responsibilities of fatherhood have done a lot for dh) it is debatable if you should try. Dh and I have the same cold: he makes more of a fuss, does that mean I have to do the housework?

My mother probably felt less tired with her bowel cancer than some other people would do with a head cold (because her expectations are lower and she doesn't like fussing). That doesn't actually mean that she should be picking up the slack for somebody with a head cold.

(btw not implying anything about my father here: he pulls his weight)

corythatwas · 16/04/2016 15:34

Sorry should have said: "if you have two healthy people faced with the same household task"

pollyblack · 16/04/2016 15:39

I sometimes wonder how i ended up in a position of doing everything. I think its a combo of caring more, then having time off paid work when i had kids and being a sahp. If i was to choose a new partner now, things would be very different!!

I like the idea of guidelines! As it stands it doesn't matter how tired i am, if i want things done i need to do them myself.

Valentine2 · 16/04/2016 15:39

Adrenaline
I think a general measure of the difference between energies and power (I don't know if it's the right word) of men and women would do. Let's say if I have a woman's body, and you have a man's body, then I want to know how much can I accomplish within 24 hours compared to you who has higher energy and stronger body than me( again I don't know the right word here).

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PurpleDaisies · 16/04/2016 15:40

I like the idea of guidelines! As it stands it doesn't matter how tired i am, if i want things done i need to do them myself.
Do you think government guidelines would genuinely help you in your situation polly?

Valentine2 · 16/04/2016 15:41

I stand on my two feet whole day and a man does that too. IN GENRAL , how likely I am to be more tired than him?

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PurpleDaisies · 16/04/2016 15:43

Let's say if I have a woman's body, and you have a man's body, then I want to know how much can I accomplish within 24 hours compared to you who has higher energy and stronger body than me( again I don't know the right word here).
This is where you run into problems. There is no such thing as a woman's body and a man's body. Individuals vary hugely in their athletic fitness. It also depends what else they've done in the day, what they've eaten, illness, etc etc etc...

Valentine2 · 16/04/2016 15:44

If there is some kind of a place which women could use , then why can't she refer to it and use it in her argument Purpledasiy ??

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NewLife4Me · 16/04/2016 15:44

You just need to find a partner who you are compatable with, it's simple.
get all this sorted out before you have kids and don't stand for any crap.
If you want to do majority of housework and raising children, well fair enough.
If you don't, then don't marry a mummys boy who expects you to.
It's hardly rocket science.

PurpleDaisies · 16/04/2016 15:44

I stand on my two feet whole day and a man does that too. IN GENRAL , how likely I am to be more tired than him?

Which man? Prince Philip? Mo Farah? Ricky Gervais?

Valentine2 · 16/04/2016 15:47

Nope. why are you giving extreme examples though? Again, if there is some kind of parameter we could use to measure for the general population, then why not?
TIGGER
did you get my message?

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PurpleDaisies · 16/04/2016 15:48

If there is some kind of a place which women could use , then why can't she refer to it and use it in her argument purpledaisies?

I'm not saying she shouldn't e allowed to use it. I just don't see the situation arising where a woman is upset about having to do all the housework and she points to government guidelines saying men should do x% of the work (regardless of the fact generating meaningful data is basically impossible) and the man says "yes I fully accept that because the government says I should take the bins out, I will do it."

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