To be angry to find so many threads on fights regarding house chores

[Valentine2]

I think it should be regarded a national emergency considering the distress it's causing to at least half the population (women mostly) and definitely the stress extends to men.
MNHQ and JUSTINE
see I think we can actually use Mumsnet as a platform for starting a campaign for this? It can involve academics, funding (Mumsnet can help with that perhaps?) and of course lots of coverage/campaign in media.
I do think that if we are finding this level of stress among mothers and women in general, it is something that must be discussed in an organised way.

I thought you told Tigger not to refer to your message?

And as I said earlier tiredness is not just caused in work by standing on your feet and it's pretty simplistic to believe it isis.

Sooty
Actually it's the first ever private message I sent here so I am not sure if it's sent properly or not.

Nope. why are you giving extreme examples though?
To illustrate the fact that there's no such thing as an average man.

Single woman need smaller houses than single men too, less chores?

In the event of a split should the father get more residency rights as he can do more with the children for longer?

I see a lot of martyrdom posts on MN. Passive aggressive chore doing that if the protagonist were single they'd think 'fuck it, I'll do it tomorrow', instead it's done in protest about unfair aspects in a relationship. This never resolved the issue.

As for arguing over who's the most tired and putting children to bed. If you've got two people with that constant attitude than they really aren't set up for family life at all and need to go on a research study about growing the fuck up.

Most people seem to believe women individually have the power to change all this - just choose the right partner, respect each other etc. this ignores however the enormous weight of structural inequality involved in the roles played by men and women.

It's a bit like expecting individual black people to sort out racism. There is a privilege involved in being a man that makes it so much easier to step back from housework and wifework - and makes even small actions apparently deserving of praise (he changes nappies! He bakes! He works part-time! He allows you a "night off"!)

Purple daisies
It would be more like " men have x% more power physically than women so they should consider it when both sides say they are tired and need rest"
I totally agree that it's not for every couple out there and also that it is too late by the time people actually start dating and marriage is on the card because it's something you learn from you early childhood.

Purpledaisy
Looking at your argument, one would think you have actually done the study and proven that there is no such thing ?

I agree with Valentine. For those of you for whom it is not an issue, that's great, but there are clearly thousands of women who are not happy with their set up. It's all very well you lucky ones saying "just do this, that or the other" because not everyone is married to, or living with, someone who will respond sensibly or fairly to this, that or the other.

It's true, there are still too many men who, despite thinking they're not neanderthals, still see housework and childcare as principally wifework. That's in spite of being intelligent, and believing that they're 'new men' and who do change the odd nappy. Deep inside, somewhere they're not aware of, they still leave things to the wife. They still think they're more important, more tired, less able to do the shit work. This is shown in their actions, not their words - many won't even be aware of it.

There are women who find it hard to be assertive. Who will put themselves last, who will put up with shit for the children's sake.

It is a national disgrace. It will become a crisis. Sometimes, I wish marriage didn't exist at all. There are far too many people who think that that means they can do fuck all, and that earning the money means they're entitled to a drudge.

It would be more like " men have x% more power physically than women so they should consider it when both sides say they are tired and need rest"

Knowing who on average has more physical power contributes absolutely nothing to an individual couple's division of labour. When I had chronic fatigue syndrome my dh did everything. Now we're more even depending on who has had the busier day at work.

The only guideline any couple needs is do what will make BOTH people on the partnership happy.

Boaty
Thanks for that. It's exactly my point. There are some who do need a nudge. Who do need to see that if they say they are tired and wife says the same, it could mean she can't open a jar of pasta sauce at that time while they can IYSWIM

There are also thousands of people that do not have any issue at all. You are only going to post on MN for a moan if you do have an issue.

I don't know anyone in RL that has any problem with all this.

Looking at your argument, one would think you have actually done the study and proven that there is no such thing?
I don't know what you mean by "no such thing". However, as a qualified doctor with a separate science degree I do know that is impossible to generate a meaningful figure for the amount of energy an average man and average woman have at the end of the day for doing housework.

Purple daisies
Yes you and me belong to the lucky ones who got men like that. But I think making the boys understand from very young age that equality doesn't mean we have equal bodies will make the situation far better. Because it can mean that when your partner says she is tired, generally it means she is more vulnerable at that point to weakness than you.

Because it can mean that when your partner says she is tired, generally it means she is more vulnerable at that point to weakness than you

Sparkling
Yes I got it from your first post that you are a lucky one. Even more so if you have t seen anyone in real life.

I don't see anything in your post that I could disagree with, BoatyMcBoat.
I just don't think that a man with that attitude would be persuaded by his wife waving a study about energy levels at him.
I don't think they need a nudge. They need a metaphorical boot up the arse.

Sparkling
Did you read my comment on the pasta jar ?

Purpledaisies- no of course it wouldn't help my situation now but it might help women in the future. Just as drink driving guidelines etc are now well bedded in and its completely unacceptable to do it, where once it was just the norm.

I agree about why should it all be on us to make change... I don't want to take on any more jobs!!

'But I think making the boys understand from very young age that equality doesn't mean we have equal bodies will make the situation far better'

That's an interesting point...

I don't think of it as lucky. Just normal.

It should be the norm, Sparkling.

Solitary wanderer
What do you mean by interesting?
Purple daisies
You and me are very lucky that it's our normal

Of course it should be the norm. If someone's a disrespectful inconsiderate waste of space some kind of app or study isn't going to make him better partnership material.

Tigger
Have you received my message ? Pls confirm