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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To wonder how many times a child has to hurt someone before mainstream school will bow out?

56 replies

MigraineMartie · 15/04/2016 14:09

Slightly worried as daughter is at per school with a child ( male ) also going onto the same one intake school in September.
They both started this September just gone and it's a school nursery.
He has hit / pushed / bitten most of the children in the class causing black eyes and a knocked out tooth.
The school have spoken with the mother and have said they don't think there are any additional needs however they cannot begin to assess until the age of 6.
So what happens until then, all the children just get injured??

OP posts:

NynaevesSister · 15/04/2016 14:13

No of course not. The school will have a behaviour policy on its website. This will outline the process the school must follow for all pupils.

There is no set number of times! One of the grounds for permanent exclusion is the safety of other pupils and the safety of staff. Sometimes the behaviour is so extreme that they will jump straight to permanent exclusion but usually the school will have tried everything it can first.

I am horrified that the pre school talked to you at all about the other child. It is a serious breach of confidentiality.

NynaevesSister · 15/04/2016 14:15

The school will have a duty to safeguard your child. If that does not happen you should address this with the school in terms of how they are going to ensure her safety, and her access to education. You will not be told what is happening with the other child nor should you expect to be told.

curren · 15/04/2016 14:18

In my experience.they don't.

One child did this sort of think to my dd all way through school. On and off. In year 6 we involved the police. That's when it stopped.

I am sure all schools are different. But even the union rep the teachers brought in to meet with us and the police agreed something else should have been done before. The police were appalled at what the school did.

I can only advise writing everything down with date as, details. Everytime he hits your child, every meeting and ask a school for a copy of the notes they take at these meetings too. Schools usually Buck up their ideas when they know you are recordings everything.

Schools have behaviour policies etc. But often don't follow them. Your school may be different and actually do something. But You need to do the leg work to back yourself up just in case they don't. for you.

Original poster

MigraineMartie · 15/04/2016 14:20

They had to speak to me after the third time she was injured in the same week.
They are allowed to tell me what she they begin assessment surely?
I believe he is on some sort of behaviour plan and he is now not allowed out at lunchtime but the attacks have not decreased much.

OP posts:

CwtchesAndCuddles · 15/04/2016 14:23

Who said that SN assessment can't begin until a child is 6!!!!

That is 100% incorrect!!!!

Check the school behaviour policy, keep records and "remind" school of it's duty of care if necessary.

CwtchesAndCuddles · 15/04/2016 14:25

Three incidents with your child this week!

I would be putting my concerns in writing to the Head and if nothing changes after that I would escalate to Chair of Governors.

steppemum · 15/04/2016 14:26

The other thing to do is to put a formal complaint in writing to the governors. You can only complain about your own child, but you can let other parents know that that is what you are doing.

Your complaint however is simple, that YOUR child is not being safeguarded. The school can safeguard in many ways, one of which could be some 1:1 support for the other child.

Not assessing until 6 is rubbish as well.

But the bet advice is record, record, record record. Let the school know you are recording.
eg - meeting with class teacher. Follow it with email, 'further to our meeting today just wanted to confirm that you will be taking steps A and B'
Thanks

bigTillyMint · 15/04/2016 14:27

There is no reason for holding back on getting assessments done on children in Reception or Nursery - many children are assessed at that age.

How the school deal with him/assessments, etc is confidential. No educational setting should be talking to other parents at all about a specific child.
But they do have a duty to safeguard your child (and all others) If you feel concerned, I would keep a log of everything that is happening, meetings, etc.

LarrytheCucumber · 15/04/2016 14:30

The pre school are failing in their duty. They should have consulted whoever is now responsible for SENBD. Leaving it until he is 6 is just a way of passing the buck to the school.

ReallyTired · 15/04/2016 14:30

Do you honestly think that a school should give up on a four year old? He hasn't even started reception and you ready want him excluded? The answer to your question is that a half decent school will move hell and high water to make inclusion work. Many areas have no provision for four year olds with behavioural problems.

Maybe this child does have special needs, certainly it's not too young for assessment. I expect the little boy's mother had no desire to discuss her child's assessments with you. It's really none of your business. It's not as if you want the best for her child.

If your child is being attacked then ask for a meeting with the teacher. You can ask the school what measures they are taking to keep everyone safe.

honkinghaddock · 15/04/2016 14:44

Not being able to begin to assess until 6 is complete rubbish. My son had a statement and 1:1 in place before he left nursery. They are failing this child.

ouryve · 15/04/2016 14:44

they cannot begin to assess until the age of 6

Says who?

m0therofdragons · 15/04/2016 14:53

My dds' school has one pupil who is regularly violent. He has hurt dd1 who is older than him and they didn't take it very seriously but when he hurt dd2 (she's 2 years younger) they temporarily excluded him and I did become "that parent" as I made it clear dd wouldn't attend school until they reassured me they could keep her safe. They actually responded brilliantly and called dh and I in for a meeting where they said everything right. He's not sen but the school has chosen to allocate money to give him a 1:1 as it's what's right for the dc and the school. Just because he's not assessed, the school can still put things in place.

AugustaFinkNottle · 15/04/2016 14:57

Get hold of a copy of the school's discipline, bullying and safeguarding policies, and ask for a meeting to discuss precisely what they are doing to implement them, and what they plan to do to keep your child safe. There's no need to discuss the other child for that purpose - but people are right, there is absolutely no reason why they should wait till he's 6 to ask for an EHC needs assessment. I must say, I really don't understand how they can claim to have decided that he has no additional needs when they're clearly not managing his behaviour.

If you know his parents at all, maybe you could delicately suggest that they get advice about putting in their own request.

2016ismyyear · 15/04/2016 15:01

Rubbish about assessment not beginning til 6. Often schools delay it as waitong to see if maturity issues.

Parents needs to attend a challenging behaviour course such as incredible years and work with the school to implement same techniques.
Whether it's a behavioural/ boundaries issue who whether it's an ADHD/ASD type thing this will be useful.
School need to be on the ball with safeguarding all children in their care and no it's not acceptable that your daughter has been hurt three times. Sounds like this child needs closer supervision and resources allocated to it.

Alfieisnoisy · 15/04/2016 15:04

Echoing everyone who says that it's rubbish about not assessing him before age 6.

My DS had multiple issues at that age and went into school with support in place to keep him safe but also to protect other children as he couldn't cope with touch and would push other children away. He was nearly 8 before we got an autism diagnosis but the school put loads of support in prior to that,

Fairylea · 15/04/2016 15:07

Another saying total nonsense about not assessing until 6!!

My son is nearly 4 and was diagnosed with special needs / asd at 2.8 and has an ehcp (statement) which means he has full time 1 to 1 support at nursery and this will continue when he starts school in September.

The school sounds like it is failing both children very badly!

finova · 15/04/2016 15:08

Who would do the assessments and provide the support? Would it be educational psychologists? They offer a very limited service where we live.
There is a similar child in my DC's nursery, but I can see they might want to use allocated Ed. Psych time with other children.

insancerre · 15/04/2016 15:11

A child can be assessed before 6
I'm a bit shocked they have told you so much information about this child
They really shouldn't be discussing him with the parents
Tbh the nursery sound rubbish
If he hasn't any issues, then his behaviour is down to the nursery environment
What strategies do they have in place to deal with his behaviour?

This child needs help, not ignoring or excluding

mummytime · 15/04/2016 15:14

In my experience - Ed Psych time is first used for violent children. But there should be a whole LA special needs team, who should be intervening in this situation.

To be honest unless the school calls in outside help, they are risking being challenged by the parents if they try to exclude.

And of course they can assess before 6! Lots of children arrive at school with statements/EHCPs.

insancerre · 15/04/2016 15:17

Im speechless
I've just read the post where it says he is on a behaviour plan and isn't allowed out at lunchtimes

I am absolutely appalled that the preschool think this is appropriate

They may well find that thesis behaviour management, if it can be called that, is part of the problem
Children, especially boys, and active boys need to be able to p!ay outside. That's why most good nurseries do free flow.

howabout · 15/04/2016 15:21

Assessment is irrelevant to your concerns. The nursery / school has a duty of care to safeguard your child individually, not some airy fairy guide to balance the needs of all. Also it is absolutely not the case that there is no assessment process before 6. My DDs go to nursery and school with SEN children and NT DC with "challenging" behaviour and SS involvement. Violence is not tolerated from anyone towards anyone at any age (if it were the HT and upwards would be hearing from me and I would be withdrawing my DC till it was sorted out).

Goingtobeawesome · 15/04/2016 15:22

Ime schools pick and choose what they do. My child was assaulted at school. As per policy the attacker should have been excluded. He is still in school. Mine is not. This is more than three kids who have left because of this violent child and the second time police have been involved.

My older child was also bullied and the head decided to keep the bullies as they were in foster care or had adhd.

MrsSchadenfreude · 15/04/2016 15:31

We had one like this at the DDs' primary school. He was finally permanently excluded when he bit DD2 so badly (he was hanging from her shoulder by his teeth) they had to take her to A & E. I didn't even get an apology from his parents (I overheard them telling the head teacher he was just"high spirited".) I don't think the school ever does anything until something serious happens. We had previously asked the teacher to keep him and DD apart, as he had bitten her and punched her in the face before, but she couldn't spend all of her time keeping them apart, or making sure he didn't hit or bite anyone.

finova · 15/04/2016 15:42

Does it take a big event for an exclusion to happen or would a series of small events warrant exclusion?
What about 1:1 support how is that decided on?

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