To wonder how many times a child has to hurt someone before mainstream school will bow out?

[MigraineMartie]

Slightly worried as daughter is at per school with a child ( male ) also going onto the same one intake school in September.
They both started this September just gone and it's a school nursery.
He has hit / pushed / bitten most of the children in the class causing black eyes and a knocked out tooth.
The school have spoken with the mother and have said they don't think there are any additional needs however they cannot begin to assess until the age of 6.
So what happens until then, all the children just get injured??

Never at our school.

Head is very proud of never excluding a child in twenty years of headship.

Yeah not assessing for special. Needs untill six is bollocks my son was diagnosed with autism and learning disabilities at three and a half .

This child certainly can be assessed; not being assessed before the age of six stopped years ago. It sounds as if pre-school are waiting for him to go to mainstream rather than initiate the process; not uncommon.

He should certainly have extra support, probably one to one to prevent him attacking other children; being hurt three times in one week is not acceptable.
I doubt if he will be excluded, but the sooner this behaviour is acknowledged it can be managed, and may even improve with support.

Pre-school are refusing to deal with this problem; find out the chain of command and use it, and keep complaining until something is done.

Violent behaviour at 4? is not the child's fault, and is 100% something that should be being deal with by the adults in their life. The behaviour plan sounds inappropriate, and the child should be assessed.

I have only known violence when either a child: has SN OR has been abused/witnessed abuse/violence.

Behaviour is communication. This child is communicating unhappiness, fear, anxiety and an inability to communicate.

In the circumstances I would be inclined to remove my child, not because of the other child, BUT because the pre-school doesn't seem to be "safeguarding" anyone by dealing inadequately with the behaviour and not seeking outside help.

The nursery / school has a duty of care to safeguard your child individually

This

Echoing other posters - assessment can begin as early as 18 months BUT the parents have to seek this out and be open to having their child assessed and not all parents are. The nursery seem to have behaved appallingly by giving out personal information about the child and not safeguarding your child. My DS has had his face bitten so badly there was a bruise over half of it, had chunks scratched out of his arm and face, been pushed over and hit in the face and my husband was kicked by a child on an open morning. DS has ASD and goes to a special school - there are some challenging children there but they handle the incidents well and I understand that sometimes children with ASD can become completely overwhelmed and I'm just grateful that my son is the passive little boy he is because I know it is only a quirk in fate that my DS is passive and another child is more aggressive.

I don't think we have to assume the pre-school told the OP anything about the child. She may know the mother and have spoken to her about the situation. Hence knowing about playtime. Very difficult position to be in if somebody is looking to you for peer support whilst their kid thumps yours.

As much as the child needs help he cant just be left to hurt the other children. Something needs to be done

The other child isn't your concern to a certain extent. The school /nursery is. It is their job to properly support this boy and to keep the other children safe.

They absolutely can assess before six. They can't say no special needs particularly since he hasn't been assessed.

You cannot ask what they are doing with this child but you can ask what they are doing to safeguard your child, and request the relevant policy if it isn't on the website. Assessments can be done at any point, so the nursery are ducking the problem, but that should not be your priority.

My son was diagnosed with sn at 2 so saying they have to wait until 6 is incorrect.

He has hit other children and it mortified me, his nursery now have a 1-1 right beside him so this never happens now.

As a parent of the hitter I would be asking what can be done.

As a parent of the the child who's been hit I would be demanding they put her safety first.

It doesn't matter if this child has sn or not they should be working towards a solution and not minimising it.

Of course it's not correct hat the school can't assess until the age of 6, but it is the case that if the school makes a request for a formal assessment, involving outside agencies, the authorities would expect the school to have put measures in place, both to modify his behaviour and safeguard other children. In order to demonstrate the effectiveness or not, of those measures, a certain amount of time will obviously elapse. Also, any recommendations from an EP or other agency will bed to be acted upon, so that's probably another period of time. Generally, a minimum of half a term would be needed to show whether an intervention worked or not.

If the school puts in 1-1 support, I would hope that they would do that in conjunction with a behaviour plan, based on the behaviour policy. Simply putting another person in there to be with the child will not necessarily make a difference without such a plan- I know, I've been there. Managibg additional needs are the responsibility of all staff.

Chase - if your head has never excluded a child, how would she cope with violence? Because, to be frank, if the child that bit DD2 hadn't been excluded permanently after that incident, we would simply have removed her from the school, on the grounds that they couldn't keep her safe. Or is that what happens? The violent child gets to continue their education, stay with their friends (if they have any!) and carry on with their life, and the child that has been attacked has the disruption of moving schools, making new friends etc etc. Ten years on, DD2 still has a scar on her shoulder.

Your child is not being cared for at school given the fact this is the same child that is causing physical injury. The issue is simp,e to clarify - what is difficult is the solution . The school has a duty of car to your child

This happened in my DTs class and the behaviour continued right up until year 6 and got much worse as he got bigger. Luckily we now have a new headteacher. But the child was continually excused with the head being useless. I have 5 children and most children who had extreme behaviour at a young age have carried on and been excluded at high school age where they finally get intense behavioural help. Surely they should provide the help sooner?

I have known a child be totally separated from his peers as they couldn't guarantee other children's safety. Parents were refusing special schools so child was taught 1:1 in a separate room. I think at some point the parents will have to fpgive in as the situation is unsustainable

sorry to go against the majority of the thread, but where I live the service that does the diagnosis of SEN is PCAMHS and although they DO do it younger, they don't like to assess a child before the age of 6 or 7 on the grounds that there's so much development going on prior to that age, that what can look like SEN can disappear within 6 months and never be seen again. I have done referrals for younger children, and they have been taken up, but not often.

To get them to do an assessment on a younger child, it has to be quite extreme SN.

Also, since they've done away with statements and now it's EHCP, even with a diagnosis, if there's no health or other need you won't get and EHCP.

The school does need to safeguard your child and the other children. Agree with people who suggest you record. I would also get an advocate to attend meetings with you (and write everything down), even if your advocate is your BFF or a family member, it will help.

Hope things get better!

Both of my boys have EHCPs with no significant health needs and no social services involvement. The whole idea is that the 3 areas are interlinked, where needed, not that all 3 areas have to be there.

I would put a formal complaint in and speak to the head teacher. This can't be right if there saying they can't assess anything until the age of 6. The kids hurting other children then something needs to be done about it ASAP.

For an ehcp a child needs to have educational needs. They don't need to have health or social needs. If a child would have been eligible for a statement then they will be eligible for a ehcp.
I refused special school for my son because the special schools offered were inappropriate. When he was offered the right special school he left mainstream.

That school sounds unbelievable