To wonder what a children life might bring?

[springtimevintagedream]

DP and I are not yet fully decided on the matter of children.

We both want them dearly but for a variety of reasons have to concede that perhaps it would be unfair, and selfish to have them, as we just couldn't offer them a great upbringing.

Obviously this is hard.

So - trying to think of a life WITHOUT children, what would you do?

The advantages are, we can stay in a small property without a mortgage. We both love animals so a dog / horse are possibles. Saving money isn't as much of a worry due to not having to think about the hundred and one needs of a growing family so we can be selfish with the cash!

What would you do? :)

Thank you for your very honest post, Ragwort

I feel for you OP if you dearly want children but won't for the reason you think it would be unfair on a child due to yours or your DH health. That is a very unselfish thing to do and I would also say that there are many people I feel who should not be parents who have no health issues so presumably you are taking advice from health professionals as to whether having children really is a path you should not consider.

If we had no DC we would certainly have had more disposable income so yes travel would be something high up in our agenda. Having a dog/horses sounds like something you would enjoy so that may be worth considering. If you don't have children then part time work rather than full time could be considered so more leisure time for hobbies etc. More time and money for weekends away, theatre trips, new interests etc. As you are a teacher presumably education is important so evening classes possibly? The world is your oyster and there is no rule which says having children is the only way to have a fulfilling life as long as you come to terms with it and don't find yourself regretting decisions years later.

I get very impatient at the idea that unconditional love for your children is immediate and necessarily makes up for everything. My experience (with my biological child) was more akin to that of friends who adopted - you got handed a small stranger you had to learn to love over time. The horror of the early months was that the negative life changes are immediate, whereas the love is gradual, so you are initially making enormous sacrifices for someone you don't love yet, and who can't love you back yet.

Another poster posted upthread about being from a big family and it being inconceivable she wouldn't have children - my (also big) family's experience is different. None of my five siblings (youngest aged 35) have children or plan to have them. I don't think my parents enjoyed having children - but for working-class, devout Irish catholics of their generation, contraception wasn't an option - and we absorbed that very early.

I would go on holidays.
I would have long lies..
I would still have my beautiful body,
I would still be confident
I would have a lovely positive bank balance,
I'd have cinema dates every weekend and enjoy lovely Italian food,
I would have saved myself a year of crippling depression
And a lifetime of stress...

But I wouldn't have experienced love I never knew,
I wouldn't have experienced pride in a way I'd never before,
And I wouldn't have the sheer joy & amazement of watching her first steps.

It's swings and roundabouts.
Good things go and bad things come but bad things also go and good things come.

They're strange things, but only you can decide which way you'd like to go.

For me personally the childfree life is superficial and unfulfilling. All those luxuries mentioned - long pub lunches, regular dates and nights out, holidays etc do seem quite self-centred pursuits once you've had kids and your world is centered around someone other than yourself or your other half. Life becomes about making someone else happy, safe, fulfilled. And that's made me feel more happy and fulfilled.

Not generalising though, that's just how I feel. Not everyone finds fulfillment in the same way.

My uncle and aunty did not have children. They said it was because they wanted to go on a lot of holidays. They now go to the same place in the UK every year. My aunty has become quite bitter and has convinced herself that she doesn't like children. They openly say lots of negative things about kids. They both seem quite unhappy and have absolutely no conversation. I don't think they are a great advert for not having kids.

I think as you get older you may feel that there is something missing? I think kids keep you young. They certainly keep you on your toes anyway.

In addition to what I've said above, I will also say that some people should probably not have children. Sounds controversial, but, I know people who are so driven and focussed on themselves they probably would find it difficult to make the sacrifices that having children requires. You do have to give things up. Continuing a hobby (even going to the gym) can be very difficult at first, particularly if you also work. It depends how much you have in your life and how willing you are to let things slide a bit whilst you bring up kids. The trouble with my aunty and uncle (see above) is that they just don't have much going on in their lives. You've got to do what you think is best for you.

Notagainmun

You said that no mother can be happy as their unhappiest child. There's something in that sure, I get that a mother can never truly be happy unless their children are content. It works the other way too though. My mum is bipolar and her illness has dominated mine and brothers life, forever. We didn't have a normal upbringing and now as a 40yr old married woman with a 4yr old child. I have to be careful about what contact my son has with his grandma to ensure he maintains a relationship with her but us shielded from the franctly horrible realities that my mum's illness brings. It's life isn't it. We all have shit to deal with alongside the brilliantness of being part of Loving family can bring. It's not comparable or justifiable for deciding whether someone should have children or remain child free. It's just what it is.

I had my first rather late - I have to agree that the 'oh you don't know what love is until you've had a child' thing used to make me grind my teeth in fury. As if the child free are some sort of perpetual shallow adolescents - utter rubbish.

Having had one (and hopefully I'll have another) my life has changed a lot. Both positive and negative changes.

Positives: yes, there's huge love. It surprised me how strong it was. It took time to grow though. And you need it because ffs when you've not slept more than an hour in months, unless you lived them that much you'd go nuts....
Negatives: for me the hardest thing has been the loss of 'me time' to just read a book, Go for a walk, etc . That's a biggie. Physically I found pregnancy and birth hard - I had hyperemesis and spd and I am still nowhere near recovered.

Op, without knowing what your health issues are its so hard to give advice. One thing I will say is don't assume you'll be a bad parent. There are plenty of bad parents out there and they are generally not the ones agonising over whether they will be good, if you see what I mean. Physical issues can be surmounted .
At the end of the day children need love, stability and the basics (food, shelter etc.)

Only you can make the choice.

my childless friends travel a lot, go out, cinema, theatre... just do as they please. I have to admit I am sometimes rather envious.

we have 2 DC, one with severe SN. our life revolves around caring and being financially ruined. we have not been on a holiday in a decade, friends have all more or less deserted us. it is a lonely and hard place sometimes I love my DC and would not change the world for them but I can see now that not having children has distinct advantages.

My mum meant well, but made us miserable growing up.

She probably thought she was giving us the perfect childhood.

I don't know what to do:)

Whatever the positives and negatives of having children may be, I applaud you for considering your mental or physical health may not be strong enough to cope with the demands of being a parent. One couple I know are trying to get ivf despite both of them having debilitating illnesses, one of which could easily mean an early death. Any child they might have would probably end up a young carer.

Spring, I also had well-meaning parents who nonetheless gave us a miserable upbringing, in part because they came from very deprived, dysfunctional backgrounds themselves, and had no idea how to parent, or that anything more than food and clothes were required.

I thought long and hard about having a child - it was never a 'natural' decision for me - but I am a good mother. Or a good enough mother.

Don't assume you inevitably unwittingly pass on your own childhood to your children. Or that because it's an agonising decision for you that you're any less adequate as a potential parent than someone who's been planning to parent since childhood.

That's not to argue you should have a child, just to say that having had bad parenting yourself should not automatically involve you ruling yourself out.

The fact that you're aware of their shortcomings suggests you will not repeat them.
Don't think just because you had a damaged upbringing you're damaged - some of the best parents I know are good because they have a very clear idea of what NOT to do

For me personally the childfree life is superficial and unfulfilling.

If you had found yourself unable to have children, like quite a few MNers, then does this mean that you would have continued with this superficial and unfulfilling life of yours? Or would you have decided to live life properly? To me there's something quite sad about a person who freely admits they are nothing unless they procreate. What happens when the children grow up and move away from you?

My uncle and aunty did not have children. They said it was because they wanted to go on a lot of holidays. They now go to the same place in the UK every year. My aunty has become quite bitter and has convinced herself that she doesn't like children. They openly say lots of negative things about kids. They both seem quite unhappy and have absolutely no conversation. I don't think they are a great advert for not having kids.

As for this did you ever consider that the "oh it's because we want to go on a lot of holidays" thing may have been a smokescreen because they tried to have children and couldn't. For some people it takes a lot to admit that they are infertile. Partly because some of the attitudes which are displayed on here: that no one knows what love is until they procreate and life is just so meaningless^ unless you have kids. Maybe they don't want the pity from people like you.

"some of the best parents I know are good because they have a very clear idea of what NOT to do"

Many parents are so busy making sure they're not like their own parents that they go too far the other way though.

SukeyTakeItOffAgain, interested to know what you mean by 'people like you (me)'? I know for a fact that my uncle never wanted children as he was vocal about it for years, before he met my aunt. I 'pity' my aunt, as you put it because she did want kids and he wouldn't let her, hence her bitterness and coping mechanisms. Regardless, you know nothing about me, so no need to be arsy.

OP if you decide not to have children I'm sure there are lots of advantages and still lots of great experiences to be had in life. But being a mum is amazing, there just isn't another love like it, so if you ended up having children because you 'didn't no what else to do' you'd be a very lucky person in life. If you want them and can love them you can offer them so much more than many people can, it's not all about were you can take them or what you can buy them. Good luck with whatever you decide

Op u could be like carrie bradshaw, i use to think i was like her until i had a child now i'm Myranda

I always think 'if I didn't have children I'd be doing X Y and Z and living it up doing ABC' but in reality, because I wanted children so much, I'd probably have depression over the fact I hadn't conceived yet if that makes sense...

Well in that case, it was a bit of a drip feed wasn't it? And my point remains the same - that many people don't say they can't have children, because they don't want pity from people whose lives are just so fulfilling in comparison because they produced a couple of kids.

Ultimately, provided the decision whether or not to have children is freely made and not forced on you by biology or circumstances, the choice is always a selfish one IMO.
No child has ever asked to be born.

If a child free life is forced on anybody, I think it is really hard to make your peace with that.
I am very grateful that I had children, but I don't for a minute imagine that my life would have been 'meaningless' without them.

springtime, you are NOT your mother.
I think we all make mistakes that are utterly unique to us - there are certain things that my parents did that I try to avoid, all the while realising that I am cocking up in my own personal way . My children are loved and clothed and fed and supported in their endeavours.
I had a happy childhood, generally, and I hope that is how my children will think back on theirs even if they 'hate' me from time to time for not cooking their favourite meal or for having to divide my attention between them or for just being ME.