'What British Muslims Really Think'.

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

This Ch4 documentary can't possibly be representative of all British Muslims when only 1081 were polled......can it?

AIBU to think that, for some, this kind of documentary will only ever be seen as evidence of 'Islamophobia'?
And the fact that it is made by Channel 4 will immediately turn lots of folks off..

Trevor Phillips concludes from the study that Muslims are becoming a nation within a nation.

Lumela thanks for your explanation. I think it's a bit clearer now after looking at your link. Very interesting.

From living in a now majority Muslim area I would say yes it is becoming a nation within a nation, but some of the Eastern European communities are becoming like that too. There are schools in my area which are starting to almost self segregate along religious lines as a kind of drift.

Until I see the programme in full which in my case won't be until tomorrow afternoon as I'm too knackered to stay up, I don't feel I can comment. I have Muslim friends but I haven't really spoken to them on these subjects, they feel kind of taboo. As Lumela says, the key is in the spread of sample with age, income, education etc taken into account. Where I live is more deprived, most women at home, issues with unemployment, high transient populations of other migrants, issues with low aspiration etc. but equally my doctor is Muslim and I would hope educated to the highest degree, but he doesn't actually live here.

It will be interesting to see what it says though.

Happy to help, skanky.

pointy, it is certainly to do with more than sample size - sample selection also matters, which a couple of posts upthread addressed. That Guardian article is interesting, but there is a limit to what it can tell us since, as the article itself says, 'the full details of the methodology are yet to be revealed'. And obviously, how the results are presented will really matter too - it sounds if they might be hyped, rather than a measured approach being taken. It will be disappointing if a chance for a really solid study has been passed up in favour of headline-grabbing, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case.

I'm pleasantly surprised by the measured approach.

Me too.

I saw this on the BBC website about it - www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36016708
Mid way down you link to the original research ...it is 615 pages long ...
here -www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/Mulims-full-suite-data-plus-topline.pdf (not sure if this link will work if it doesn't it is in that BBC page
Had a skim read and they do seem to have corrected for age , background etc...
Honestly I couldn't be bothered to try and understand it in any detail when I looked - maybe someone else can be bothered?

try again
www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/Mulims-full-suite-data-plus-topline.pdf

"Liberalism is not really islam " some man just said - but there is also FEAR, a great fear of speaking out about wanting to leave the religion or having issues with it!

Perhaps the title was chosen after the programme was made and doesn't quite represent it?

So we are finished bashing 'benefit scroungers' then?

what about a ch4 program.. what the british peple realy think.cant see that happening can anyone else.it would be good to get the average british persons view abot muslims and integration

We might argue about the method but it does seem that there is a significant minority of Muslims that hold beliefs in strong conflict with the liberal and Christian culture prevalent in the western world. Hard choices will need to be made if we want to preserve European culture.

So we are finished bashing 'benefit scroungers' then? are you on the right thread?

I certainly didn't learn anything new, but I would like to hear some practical solutions to tackle this worrying issue.

I believe the general British public is too afraid to have those difficult conversations because years of brainwashing has taught them it's a thought crime to criticise an ideology.

I think witch's point was that with television where small sample size, limited demographic range and editorial bias (they want to be controversial and shit-stir), you are as well of gleaning the opinion of people with beards and suggesting it's representative of people with beards.

I still haven't watched it but actually that is one thing that I found surprising looking at the data is the lack of 'thought crime', the PC aspect
I would have thought you would struggle to get 2% (

So we are finished bashing 'benefit scroungers' then?

..and fatties?

I haven't seen the documentary and have only skimmed this thread (so am perhaps not that qualified to comment), but if I were making this programme, I would have titled it 'What Islam really thinks' . The focus on interviews with individual people is misplaced for all the reasons outlined above - we can't ever know what people actually think (people can, erm, lie), sample size, generalisations from sample, definitions of terms, etc.. To me, a far more interesting programme would have been one that focuses on the violent, aggressive, nasty, superstitious bits in Islam, how and by whom these are supported (e.g., our own politicians have been known to play a role in this), and ways to eradicate these aspects of belief. This programme could contrast the nasty bits with other religious nasty bits and trace the trajectory of changes, which these other belief systems have undergone to their present day. Why is militant Islam growing while militant Christianity, for example, does not seem to be? Who or what is supporting the traditional beliefs in Islam while the rest of us are becoming less religious, less traditional and better informed more generally?

Why is militant Islam growing while militant Christianity, for example, does not seem to be?

Actually I think fundamentalist Christianity is growing quite fast in this country, and is huge in the USA.

Itinerary - yes, I was thinking about that, which is why I thought I'd better write 'doesn't seem to be' (I don't know the exact figures) although Western cultures are becoming less religious (currently, approximately 50% of the population = atheist, up from about 30% just a few years ago, so we are heading in the right direction). My main point is that it'd be far more interesting to find out why people (whoever they may be. We have a huge problem with militant Islam at the moment but if anyone else kicks off, then these axioms would apply to them, too) are attracted and re-attracted to superstitious nonsense when certain cultures have been fantastic at curbing these beliefs and minimising the influence of myths in our everyday lives. It's interesting to know which influences are present to drive people to reject sound, evidence-based beliefs and practice in favour of myths, superstitions and erroneous beliefs. Who/what is supporting this? Whose interests are being served?

Four I wouldn't compare Islam to other religions, esp not the extremist part.

I feel it dilutes the argument somewhat.

Its not the same as other religions the context of it is also different.

Millions of sects may be growing in the world but the main global issue right now is Ilsam, and ISIS. So why not keep the debate to them?

Re the progress of Islam - you do have to bear in mind that Islam kicked off around 600 AD, so a lot later than Christianity. And Christianity most definitely did go through a militant, scary, intolerant stage - we had the Inquisition, the persecution of new Christian sects by older ones and vice versa, we had the oppression of women - Christianity did it all, in the past. Perhaps this is something major religions have to go through, like a particularly horrendous type of puberty, before they reach maturity? 2016 is the Islamic year 1437. Let's look at what Christianity was doing in 1437 before we judge. It may be something in human nature that makes people behave like this through the development of a faith.

Will living in a world filled with modern technology speed up the process of Islam moving towards its own 21st century? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is that if you make allowances for dates, the parallels are there, and that this is one of the reasons why I am an atheist.

Haven't seen this programme yet but I see the knee-jerk articles (Guardian and Daily Mail) are already out, claiming variously that this is awful, biased, flimsy, Islamophobic research that aims to inflame tensions or else that an illiberal cult of medieval misogynists are lurking in our midst, refusing to integrate and merrily raping white teenagers.

Watching this thread with interest

pointy, I have wondered exactly the same myself sometimes.... Glad to know that it isn't just me!

I imagine if they did a poll on what white blokes who belong to golf clubs it would be equally shocking but I doubt that documentary is in the pipe line.