To be offended that my cousin sent this gift back?

[FlyRussianUnicorn]

Cousins little girl has just turned 8. Very much a girly girl and loves dressing up, playing with her mums makeup etc.

I got her some dressing up outfits and some play makeup for her birthday- actual toy stuff, not "real" makeup.

Cousin has sent it back in the mail. I contacted her and asked her why and apparently it isn't appropriate for a 8 year old to have her own makeup. I'm talking cheap stuff in plastic tat- lipgloss and eyeliner and a cheap nail art set. I didn't want to cause an argument so I apologise and she seemed really pissed off.

AIBU to be offended?

I just assumed that make up was like face-paint, dressing up as Elsa, Anna, a pirate, superhero or whatever. It's make believe and completely different to letting them paint up like a beauty pageant queen and leaving the house like it! My 5yo ds loves being pampered by his big sister and I often pick him up from his cm and his female friends have put blusher or nail varnish on him. But nobody worries we're sexualising him!

Regardless of your feelings about makeup, it's bloody rude to return a present. On the odd occasion people have bought ds things we don't want him to have, we subtly put it away in a cupboard and politely say thank you. It's not difficult.

I think you had tried really hard to think of a thoughtful present linked to some existing interest which is really kind.

A lot of people don't!

What exactly is it that people think will happen if their kids smears kiddie makeup on their face?

I don't get the fuss, I wear make up my kids watch me put it on and grab the blusher brush and 'do theirs'. So far nothing bad has happened...

Kiddies make up is in the same league as fancy dress IMO. I don't suppose the eyeliner was a a black kohl jobby, probably a fat pink crayon type thing!

Your cousin is a rude and YANBU. Even more so that she lets her daughter play with her make up!

I wonder what she would do if something truly offensive happens!

What exactly is it that people think will happen if their kids smears kiddie makeup on their face?

In my dc's case they will probably get a really bad rash, for a start. And then you have be a bit thick if you can't work out why some people don't like the normalisation of makeup for very young girls, and all the attendant issues.

Getting a rash is understandable.

To me normal would be putting on makeup to leave the house and entirely different for what playing with kids make up is e.g. putting on some multi coloured play makeup to prance around at home in whilst probably wearing a princess dress and wellies.

Play make up is just a toy. If you don't like it don't have it. But seriously to send it back so rude.

If normalisation is an issue, then the mothers should stop wearing it.

I notice it's always toys typically seen as "girly" which get a bashing here. I've never seen anyone pearl clutching because their DS got a batman costume or a toy truck for their birthday.

I'm a very proud feminist but I will defend my children's rights to play with whatever toys they wish to play with.

Everyone who says she was rude to send the gift back, I read it slightly differently.

She did it because it's rude and she wanted to draw attention to how inappropriate the gift was (in her view). She was offended by the gift and so chose to respond equally offensively.

Op, you just have to suck it up, I'm afraid. You meant well and your cousin sounds hard work - there was a nicer way to get her point across. But really she's sending you a clear message and lots of people seem to agree, so that's that, really.

I notice it's always toys typically seen as "girly" which get a bashing here.

Oh, so you've never seen the great gun debate then...? :o

Make up isn't bashed because it's "girly" it's because it's too grown up though.

I don't like my DS aged 4 playing with 'weapon' toys...I personally find it a bit creepy to see little kids pretending to shoot or stab other people (No, I don't think it makes kids become serial killers, I just don't like it).

He got quite a few guns and swords at his birthday party. I thanked the givers profusely and we did thank you cards. I then discreetly passed them over to my 7 year old nephew, whose parents are more than comfortable with him playing with these toys.

I should add, my son isn't really interested in these toys or I wouldn't have taken them away from him like that. But he didn't notice them in the pile he received from kind, well-meaning gift givers.

Sorry OP, it sounds like you tried really hard to be thoughtful.

How incredibly ungracious of her,regardless of your choice.

Right here is why there are bleaty threads on Mumsnet about occaisions not being acknowledged by grans,aunts ,uncles,mums, mil's and all those who have had a kind thought thrown back in their face.

Say nothing OP and send nothing again.

In my dc's case they will probably get a really bad rash, for a start. And then you have be a bit thick if you can't work out why some people don't like the normalisation of makeup for very young girls, and all the attendant issues.

This. And I should add I've discouraged people who asked what my just turned 4 year old DS would like for his birthday from Batman/Spiderman/ninja turtles stuff and trucks - frankly, he has a million trucks, and there's enough stuff around in his life, not least from older kids at his childminder's, which encourages fairly violent combat play.

Not that he doesn't play these kinds of games too, but I'm not keen on him being socialised to think that because he's a boy, he's only supposed to like violent toys and to have an emotional vocabulary limited to karate-chopping people on the windpipe and grunting at a PlayStation, any more than I would want a daughter of mine to think she was supposed to look a certain way in order to qualify as a girl, and that her enhanced appearance was the most important thing about her.

Which is what is behind something that appears to genuinely baffle a lot of Mumsnetters, who have some kind of obsession with Pink and Barbies Being Allowed For Boys But Not For Girls, but seem unable to understand why some parents might legitimately have this take on things.

The rest of a young child's environment -- from older children, friends' dopey parents and comments about 'real boys' and double standards about whether tears from a four year old are ok, depending on the sex of said four year old,TV advertising, clothes ('pretty' for girls, tractors and 'Here Comes Trouble' slogans for boys etc), the gendering of toys into boys' and girls' aisles in shops - is giving them fairly limited and stereotypical messages about how they are supposed to be.

Which is why running around dressed in a frilly pink tutu with a Barbie pretending to be a fairy princess might be genuinely expanding a little boy's play horizons in terms of the way he is 'allowed' to be, whereas the exact same scenario for a little girl may well be only pressing home the usual messages of female passivity, domesticity and prettiness. It's hugely different, because the messages little boys are girls are still getting from the rest of society are hugely different. Still, in 2016.

Surely that isn't that difficult to understand?

It's not difficult to understand teacaddy, no.

But I ran round in frilly pink dresses being a princess as a child and tbh I find it a bit offensive that this gets sneered at because I loved it and it didn't have any negative effect on me. Maybe if my mother had insisted that was all I was allowed to play with but she didn't. My sister wasn't remotely interested in frilly dresses. She liked dinosaurs. That was fine too. Different kids.

Unfortunately, I think that both toy marketing and the fetishisation of female appearance is way more omnipresent and insidious now than when I was growing up, certainly. (I was recently looking at old photos of when I was a student in the early 1990s, and not one of us was wearing make-up or had done anything other than let our hair dry naturally.) Partly because of social media, probably, and because we live in a more consumerist society.

I don't think that benign individual experience can be set against against a fairly pervasive environment where children are bombarded with heavily-gendered messages about what they are supposed to be like. Even look at the regular threads on here about people's DHs refusing to allow their toddler boys to have a baby doll or push a toy pram for fear of bullying, people passing remarks or that the child will somehow catch 'non-manliness', or the far higher proportion of posts seeking 'strong' names for baby boys than for baby girls, where strength is generally seen as a less desirable quality than a name's prettiness. (Not always, obviously, but as a general rule.)

My only concern if someone gave my 4 year old son make-up would be whether he would get a rash/irritated skin, because nothing in his environment is telling him, or is going to tell him in the near future, that it is his job as a boy to look acceptably pretty according to a certain set of criteria. The same would not be true for a 4 year old girl.

I'm sure if the 8 year old in question was a boy, there'd be a few poster on here saying what a fabulous idea it was

This is why I pay no heed to MN for parenting advice, really. It's so busy falling over itself to be gender neutral that it's ridiculous.

Posters have chosen to ignore the fact that mum allows the dd to play with make up regularly. Which is telling, really.

I think your cousin was unbelievably rude. I'd still give gifts in future as it's not the child's fault.

I think play makeup is a lovely gift and I'm surprised that so many find it 'inappropriate'.

They could just regift it to another child if they don't like it!

You went to trouble to find a nice gift that the child would like, you have nothing to feel embarrassed about. It's the cousin who behaved shamefully.

I'd like to know what the dress up costumes were that you sent 😁

+1 to that!

Yes teacaddy. I understand what you are saying. I was brought up being only supposed to play with "girls" toys. And I was sad and missed out not being allowed to play with my brothers trucks and computer. My DD had toy tractors/cars then football goals and a nerf gun as well as dolls etc. Her male friends also had dolls and pushchairs as well as traditional "boys" toys. My DD recently did a dance show and all the girls had to be made up with a full face of make up from foundation to liquid eyeliner and red lipstick. I wouldn't let her go out like this every day the same as I wouldn't let her wear really short skirts, age inappropriate underwear or crop tops because of the attendant issues. I can safely say she's going to be a strong independent woman and have no problem with her playing with make up or even going out occasionally with DH and me wearing a little bit of shadow and lipstick. I would not let her wear it if I was not going to be with her because of the safeguarding issues.

My sister bought our other sister's niece (6) some Minnie Mouse make up: she accidentally on purpose left it at our house on Christmas day. There's no need to be rude about a present. I never thought I'd allow my child to have make up but age 3 she wants to put on make up - i.e. smear it on the mirror/ her hands - while I do mine. It would be so much cheaper to do it with play make up.

Offended - perhaps. Hacked off - certainly not. It's a sign of the times when people start getting antsy about birthday gifts. She's actually been down to the post office and paid for this to be packaged and sent, so she obviously feels strongly about it. Pity she didn't let you know at the time.

A normal, undemanding un-diva like parent would have perhaps put it aside for a later date.

I bet the DD has a mobile already (and that CERTAINLY isn't appropriate for an 8 yo)

This is why I pay no heed to MN for parenting advice, really. It's so busy falling over itself to be gender neutral that it's ridiculous.

See my post above. Because so few of the messages our children are getting from the media/advertising/society at large are gender-neutral.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. I think this gift was sent back as a passive aggressive swipe at you. There is a background to this, I bet, and the gift, no matter what it was, was the excuse this woman needed to make this gesture. I wouldn't have apologised, frankly.

When I was a student in the late 80's early 90's I changed my style drastically. When I was 15/16 I wore tons of goth black make up and talc to whiten my face. I remember spending at least 2 hours before going out of the house at the weekend - I had to crimp my hair for a start off. Then when I went to university some of the time I wore make up to go out and spent hours getting ready and at other times I didn't. These days I hardly ever wear make up. I'm struggling to see the difference. Of course media does have its part to play and consumerism is at an all time high but it's natural for some girls to take hours getting ready, they're teenagers with constraints on their time or children hanging off them.

It's extremely rude to return a present like that even if it wasn't appreciated. And for the record I have no issue with dressing up and play make up in the house. Four of my daughters had play "Frozen" make up at Christmas from an Argos Advent calendar. All they did with it was mess about and wear it in the house while doing dressing up and then it was washed off. No way are they allowed to wear it out. It's all used up now and no harm came of it. When I was a kid it was completely normal to want to dress up and play with my mother's or grandma's old make up, noone batted an eyelid and I liked dressing up as a princess!