To wonder if there is any compromise when parents disagree on smacking?

[Waitrosesaysimessential]

Dh and I disagree on smacking - he is for it, I think it is pointless, and that there are better ways of managing behaviour. We have three under 5 and it is getting me down as we continually argue about it. We were both smacked as kids, and tbh I thought nothing of it until i had my own. I have had the urge to smack at times but restrained as i think it is quite cruel. I also dont understand how it is ok for me to smack my small child, while if i smacked an adult it would be assault! My dh says there is no evidence of harm, and says yelling is more harmful.

How do we compromise on this issue? He is adament our kids would behave better if i smacked them, instead of the current system of star chart and sent to room for bad behaviour. He has smacked our kids, never much but i find it horrible. I also feel it is kind of lazy, like he cannot be bothered to think of another punishment. His parents are all for smacking, and his ds did it to her own. My friends are all against, they see it as quite outdated and pointless.

Any ideas would be welcome as it is really putting a strain on us, despite years of discussion. Thank you

Well, I do see that justifying a behaviour by saying it is standard for mammals is a much more sophisticated argument.

Some animals have clearly not 'evolved'.

A quick sting is all they should feel. Less than an adult should get from a joy buzzer. It should surprise them and sting for a second. That's all.
It's not about the pain really for me. I don't really remember the physical pain. I remember the humiliation and distress and anger though.

Hopefully it will be made illegal soon. It's such an archaic and lazy way of relating to children when you can bring up well behaved children without assualting them.

Red I really wish we had a like button. Its so nice to see a sane person.

I just can't see how this is abusive.

You can't?

So if someone else smacks you because you are doing something they don't want - that's fine is it? Really?

And

You think that making a kid feel pain to teach them not to feel pain is an effective method of parenting? Because if so, how you can describe yourself as sane is well beyond me.

I am not sure if people genuinely cannot see the difference between 1) a controlled smack, to try and modify/prevent repeat of bad behaviour , often after several warnings, given to a child that you love to the end of the world and back and 2) an assault of a work collegue because they have annoyed you and 3) assaulting your elderly confused mother who has no capacity for learning/modifying her behaviour because of her cognitive decline, thus rendering the discipline totally pointless. The person who said they only know 3 examples of people who smack their children need to look out for a 4th example which is a loving parent who believes that the controlled use of smacking is acceptable occasionally to modify bad behaviour.
FWIW I think smacking becomes less acceptable as a child matures and is able to be reasoned with properly and I also think that there are some children for whom it is not an effective means of discipline, so it is also important to know and understand your children.
I also agree with Alexa that whilst people say it is good to debate these issues openly, when you express a minority opinion people get very insulting about it therefore the debate is not really open, it just becomes an attack on those who feel differently.

If I'm doing something dangerous? And won't listen? Yeah absolutely. A smacked bum will hurt me a lot less than a burn or electric shock or a speeding car will.

Hopefully it will be Catmuffin
Smacking children is just wrong

My parents were pretty caring, but I was grown up in an era when smacking was the norm, and was smacked on the leg infrequently. Within the context of otherwise caring parenting this really didn't bother me - I remember incidents of being shouted at as far more damaging and distressing, and actually would have much preferred a smack which at least was over quickly. However, having said that I don't smack my kids (and nor would DH) and think it's a rubbish form of discipline and very hypocritical. I do think though that other forms of discipline can be just, if not more, humiliating. I'm amazed at all those who don't know anyone who smacks now - I know quite a few (in a very middle class area) and it's usually the father, interestingly, with the mother often uncomfortable about it.

But why smack in the first place? If their sticking their fingers in sockets and not old enough to understand no the you get socket covers. If they run off into roads then you put them on reins. There is absolutely no excuse to smack your child.

Well the main difference among smacking your colleague, your elderly mother, and your child is that the latter is legal. Hopefully one day soon, all three will be illegal.

Just wanted to say to OP I am so pleased your DH has decided to stop smacking.

yeahsure I can't remember if the smacking came up during therapy. Thing is I can't distance myself from stepdad as my relationship with my mum is close think I go for dinner once a week, sometimes twice at weekends, pop round to see her etc. always been close. The worrying thing is, I can't remember now, if when I did get smacked if it was mum or stepdad, mum says she didn't smack me but I think she did, once or twice but rare. From her, it's a bit more acceptable? From him it was downright cruel and he was very sarcastic and nasty. Everyone who knows him thinks he is fine, lovely, he used to be known as antisocial and a bit strange after a few drinks (rants about Ireland) but now he's everyone's friend.

The therapy would help but I'm left with why the fuck did my mum let it happen. Then again you could argue why did my mum stay with an alcoholic. Strangely when I was out with her the other weekend we talked about my dad (alcoholic) and the fact he had never been violent. I said "ah but yes, he slapped you round the face didn't he" - this was after they'd been to hospital with my baby brother 10 months old almost walking, dad had been throwing baby up in air missed as he was drunk, dropped brother and brother had broken leg). She filed for divorce after that. I feel disgusted now writing that. That my own mother could put up with it, be subjected to it. Then turns a blind eye to my stepdad who drank and raged often jumping up and down like a madman in a rage. Yet this was always got over, he said he wouldn't do it again yet he did. No wonder I lost it and had a go at him when I was 30. One time my stepdad (I think I was a teenager) lost it and cried and apologised for what he'd done when younger. In fact when I was a teenager up to 30 he was a proper "dad" to me. Hugs, spoiled etc. yet when I called him on lies (he said to his family in Ireland we are in UK) that he'd bought our house, my mum had with her own money and had paid mortgage off early, nothing to do with him then his mum had a go at my mum about that, my mum sponging off my stepdad and he was so good taking on 2 kids) so I called him on that. And he refused to speak to me until recently. About a year ago, even now it's only very very small talk and civil.

The smacking in a way I can forgive to a certain degree but it's the cruel behaviour, locking us in a room, mocking me got wondering why mum wasn't coming back. I had severe abandonment issues like I said due to dad leaving, cried like mad at playgroup and infant school, was inconsolable and no wonder! What sane person locks a child in a room or mocks them like that?? My brother and I during or after one of his rants would hug and say "it will be ok".

Yeah maybe a short spell of counselling would lay ghosts to rest.

I do want to say though, I don't hate my stepdad or dislike him, I just wonder why. But he was Irish so maybe small village, backwards mentality (as another poster said) - I know his dad (who was lovely) worked away a lot and his mum had to cope with 4 boys alone.

vdbfamily so smacking a child is acceptable because they are able to modify their behaviour?

Are you suggesting that adults are not capable of learning? We all learn , would hitting my husband help him to remember to put down the toilet seat?

Smacking has become very emotive. All punishments (often termed 'consequences' these days by the squeamish) humiliate. Being deprived of a favourite possession or forcibly imprisoned in a room is not necessarily better or worse than a smack.

The anti smackers conflate a smack with a beating. In the same sense forcing a person into a room for 24 hours is abuse, for ten minutes it is not.

The most interesting perspective is asking children their perspective on the subject. Many would prefer a smack to a longer more drawn out punishment.

Parenting is about a lot more than how one disciplines. If you have a happy well adjusted child, you are probably doing it right.

As to the OP, I think both parents should be allowed to use their preferred way of discipline, always provided it is not extreme.

"also agree with Alexa that whilst people say it is good to debate these issues openly, when you express a minority opinion people get very insulting about it therefore the debate is not really open, it just becomes an attack on those who feel differently."

The problem is that sometimes people are just wrong. It's not a minority opinion that it is OK to hit children- it's plain wrong. I realze that some people feel they have religious justification- and even feel that it is wrong not to hit children. I am not going to do the usual "agree to disagree- you do it your way, I'll do it mine" on this subject. Any more than I would if someone said they thought it was OK for men to "chastise" women.

And I am not talking about the many of us, me included, who have, to our shame, smacked in a moment of frustration or temper. We all know who we are, and we still feel the shame. I am talking about the people who plan it, discuss exactly how much it should hurt and - this is awful- think that smacking is the way to discipline the very young and it becomes less necessary as they become more verbal......

"The anti smackers conflate a smack with a beating."

No we don't. The smackers tell us that's what we do. We conflate a smack with a smack.

Bertrand,

Your arrogance comes through clearly in your post. Who are you to be the the ultimate arbiter between right and wrong? Right to take a prized and loved possession away but wrong to inflict momentary discomfort. That is just your opinion, nothing more and nothing less.

There have been few studies done in smacking and those that have been done have not produced definitive results.

The vast majority of happy well adjusted adults of my generation were 'abused' as children according to you. Sorry, don't buy it.

I was referring to the example of someones elderly confused mother wandering into the road and the appropriateness of a slap to teach her not to do it again when she will not retain that information.
You are not responsible for teaching your husband how to behave. He had most of his learning in place when you met him and however much you might want to change that, it is much easier if he learns the rules of toilet etiquette whilst he is young! ( I am not saying we don't experience lifelong learning but that much of our responses are learned in childhood)
You and your DH are however responsible for teaching your children how to behave generally. I believe that providing you explain to your children what the consequences of their (wrong) actions will be, they need to learn that if they repeated ignore clear instructions about something important there will most definitely be consequences, whatever age they are in life. For those of you so anti smacking, I have been told by several people and also experienced myself, that a quick smack, followed by a discussion why it happened and a cuddle afterwards was always preferable to being put in isolation in your room for half an hour or shouted at.
Whilst I wont say it has never happened in our house, I would definitely say that smacking more than once and whilst you are out of control angry is not right and when that happened I was quick to apologise to my DD and explain why I should not have done that. There is most definitely a difference.

^^This

It's a short sighted method of punishment given that most children will go to school where they will learn that hitting people is wrong and where their behaviour will have to be managed without the aid of slaps.

It might have worked in 1970 when you could happily smack people around a bit in a variety of situations and everyone was expected to know their place. That isn't the world we live in now.

"The vast majority of happy well adjusted adults of my generation were 'abused' as children according to you. Sorry, don't buy it."

I haven't said it was abuse, either.

When is the smacking supposed to take place anyway? I can't think of a single situation whethe there wouldn't be a more effective method than smacking.

"Who are you to be the the ultimate arbiter between right and wrong?"

Who am I? Somebody who knows that hitting children is wrong.

sorry.....my post was to pearlylum
Bertram, I never responded to your suggestion that I personally use the Bible to justify my means of discipline and that is why so many of my friends smack, because I am surrounded by Christians who are all sadistic child beaters!
Some of my Christian friends don't smack.Some of my non-Christian friends do smack. I think the main reason I did smack was because I saw that my parents had used it as an effective method of discipline and had produced 4 well adjusted kids who all have a close relationship with our parents still. I have absolutely no recall of any horrendous beatings from my parents, just an occasional smack. I admit I grew up among close extended family so my cousins were probably raised in a similar way and now are doing the same with their families. Admittedly the Bible does say 'spare the rod and spoil the child', meaning that good discipline is important to produce a well rounded child who understands boundaries, but not all Christians are rushing out to buy beating sticks.
I do also know a few families, both Christian and not who I think go OTT in their punishment of children and would consider a wooden spoon or back of hairbrush to be appropriate to use for smacking. I think that is more of a 'beating' IMO but that the current legislation covers that ,as it would most definitely leave a bruise/mark.