To wonder if there is any compromise when parents disagree on smacking?

[Waitrosesaysimessential]

Dh and I disagree on smacking - he is for it, I think it is pointless, and that there are better ways of managing behaviour. We have three under 5 and it is getting me down as we continually argue about it. We were both smacked as kids, and tbh I thought nothing of it until i had my own. I have had the urge to smack at times but restrained as i think it is quite cruel. I also dont understand how it is ok for me to smack my small child, while if i smacked an adult it would be assault! My dh says there is no evidence of harm, and says yelling is more harmful.

How do we compromise on this issue? He is adament our kids would behave better if i smacked them, instead of the current system of star chart and sent to room for bad behaviour. He has smacked our kids, never much but i find it horrible. I also feel it is kind of lazy, like he cannot be bothered to think of another punishment. His parents are all for smacking, and his ds did it to her own. My friends are all against, they see it as quite outdated and pointless.

Any ideas would be welcome as it is really putting a strain on us, despite years of discussion. Thank you

Merry,

In the 1970s, I used to go to restaurants with my parents. Children sat and chatted calmly with their parents. Nearly all behaved well and benefited from it. Go into a restaurant today and watch the children 'expressing themselves'.

There are many many conflating factors so it is hard to draw conclusions but to assume today's parenting is better is erroneous.

"that a quick smack, followed by a discussion why it happened and a cuddle afterwards"

"I'm only hitting you because I love you. See? I'm cuddling you to prove it"

"that is why so many of my friends smack, because I am surrounded by Christians who are all sadistic child beaters!"

Nope. I didn't say that either.

It's amazing how people justify themselves by responding to what they would like people to have said rather than what they actually said.

im only hitting you because I love you. See I'm cuddling you to prove it?"

This ^

Maybe if I wasn't smacked as a child, I wouldn't have stayed with my violent ex so long and thought it was ok for him to punish me physically for not doing as I'm told.

In the 1970s children were expected to do what they were told by adults without question. It now appears that this led to many unfortunate consequences.

I was a child in the 1970s and we rarely went to restaurants. People ate out far less often and you wouldn't expect a random restaurant to have high chairs. I think the closest most children would have got to eating out with their parents would have been a packet of crisps in a pub garden.

For me it's about control or loss of it... If you smack as loss of control or frustration that is wrong. If you smack a naughty child and have a reason in mind to justify it that's wrong too (my best friend got smacked more than her younger sister because she wasn't her dad's biological child and didn't know this until later when she was 11).

I was smacked by a stepfather who lost control but who also couldn't reason with or tell off/discipline two young children. There may also have been an element of "not my kids". Like I said before he was also cruel and sarcastic. My mum did smack us a couple of times but more for complete defiance/severe naughtiness. She also used the telling off/go to room method.

When I say smack though I mean pants down bare bottom not slap on legs! To me that is more humiliation and designed generally to make the child cry and have remorse. A slap across the legs we never had so can't say if better or worse or a tap on wrist. My mum did say when a child was in or near danger (hot cooker etc) than a sharp tap or slap on the wrist should be done to make the child aware of that danger.

larry are you really saying that as most children would prefer a smack (take it you mean slap/tap etc rather than full on spanking) than being sent to their rooms that the rooms is better?! There is a world of difference between a quick smack and a full on spanking. Have never asked brother about the one time he was spanked badly I mean it did have the correct effect not sure he was scared by it but he learned teasing and winding me up (and being spoken calmly about it, time out etc hadn't worked) wasn't good behaviour. He was one of those kids who would relentlessly tease for the fun of it and wouldn't stop.

Smacking out of frustration etc... My mum has said this and I tend to agree why don't we have parenting classes? Eg from health authority. May be a very rose tinted view I agree but all my me had to refer to was her GP, health visitor and Dr Spocks Medical Book, all of whom I'm sure said smacking does no harm (late 60s/70s book/knowledge) in fact her own GP told her after she'd hit me with a sheet after I'd wet the bed aged about 2 or 3 that the smack was ok and not damaging to me. I think I vaguely remember the event but not badly. Strange to say the memories of the smacking (pants down) yes it was bad but we knew if that happened (always with prior warnings eg "if you do that again") then we really had pushed the limits. Not regular by any means and I suppose lazy parenting but the most used method of the 70s it would seem.

And in the 1970s children didn't go to restaurants very much.

larry and merry yes same child of 70s here's, one health food cafe allowed us kids in (a bit of a hippy vibe) otherwise the odd art gallery cafe and sometimes eating out but generally never eating out until we were about 9 or so.

No kids in pubs, pub gardens if you were lucky.

A quick smack, followed by an explanation and a cuddle is the very essence of the set up in abusive relationship. 'I love him because he is so nice but he smacks/treats me bad me about when I have done something he doesn't like'. We see it time and again on here.

That is what you are teaching your kids. How to abuse and get away with it.

I think one would only need to speak to a couple of schoolteachers to hear that classes have become almost unmanageable due to children genuinely believing that an adult has no right to tell them what to do. My eldest attends a secondary school with a good reputation. She describes kids who refuse point blank to do what the teacher asks. They talk in lessons. They play on their phones. This seems to be the norm now and whilst I would not say it is all down to children not being smacked, I think that parents are often confused about how to discipline. I know this prob needs a different thread but whereas a couple of decades ago, if a parent was called into school because their child had misbehaved, most parents would support the school and be mortified, now many parents get angry with the teachers and do not accept that their child is the problem. I get into an almost daily argument with my DD when she comes home and tells me about school because it all sounds so awful for the teachers. She thinks it is because they are bad teachers.

vdb, many people who struggle to control their children now do smack, even in the 70's smacking was uncommon after the age of about 7, teachers can't smack, whatever parents do, and times have changed.

We do encourage children to think for themselves and, now that there are fewer manual jobs, everyone is expected to have a higher standard of education. Far more demands are placed on teachers.

Back in the 70's many boys were being virtually babysat in school until they got on with the proper job of doing hard manual labour and would enter a work force where being knocked about a bit by your colleagues was part of the training.

Children are no longer being prepared to live in the 1970's.

I have worked as a teacher.

In my experience it's the kids who are smacked that are the most badly behaved- and the ones most likely to instigate aggression towards other children.

Vdb all that happened at my middle school 40 years ago when, not only did parents smack, but the school used the cane as punishment. They expelled the kids who kept doing it though, so they never got to the high school.

pearlylum I have to disagree with you there all the children I knew of who were smacked (proper smacking!) behaved generally well at school. This was 70s though.

Our junior school had the cane which we missed out on... But the older kids knew of it and quite rightly were scared of the headmaster wielding it sounds like some out of The Beano Bash Street Kids!

My mother smacked, every time it caused massive resentment because it was plain that she was just taking out her personal frustrations on us, and to this day I would say that I and my siblings all have a difficult relationship with her. DH and I never smacked and, biased though I am, I think I can honestly say our children are delightful, well-adjusted people. I find the idea of using physical force to cause pain in small children quite abhorrent, and I really cannot see the logic in effectively telling them that it's OK to use violence.

That's bullshit pearly.

The worst behaved kids in my class were the ones where the parents either didn't give a fuck or were completely soft.

In the 70's pretty much everyone was smacked to an extent so I'm not sure how you would identify the non smacking families. While I don't know the details of my class mate's home lives, I would bet money on the fact that all the 'bad boys' received regular corporal punishment at home. It was just what people did. The worse the behaviour, and the more difficult things were at home the bigger the hiding (unless you could keep out of the way until bedtime, which was easier when it was more normal for children to roam freely).

The bad boys spent large chunks of time sitting outside the headmaster's office waiting for the slipper. It was just part of the routine, and not an efficient remedial aid.

I suspect the only thing that broke the cycle was growing older so that it was easier to play truant and then leaving school.

The worst behaved kids in my class were the ones where the parents either didn't give a fuck

If you don't give a fuck, corporal punishment is and always has been a great way to control your kids.

I'd also guess that Pearly has a more clear and recent recollection and knowledge of all the children she taught as a teacher than anybody will have of all their classmates at school.

If all the groups I go to, the worst behaves toddlers are the ones that are smacked. My friend snacks her son, and now he either smacks her back and gets an even bigger punishment or he smack other children when they do something her doesn't like, in turn receiving a bigger punishment. None of it his fault, he's just doing what he's been taught to do.

I agree with you pearly. The ones that are smacked are more aggressive to other children. Because they are used to force/fear being used to resolve issues.

I've seen that too umbongo

spandex it's so sad. This poor little boy is so confused and is really very naughty now because he's copying his parents behaviour towards him.

Merry,

Equally, if you 'don't give a fuck, as you would put it, it is easy to let your children do what they like with zero consequences.

It is the being a friend rather than a parent school of parenting that leads to a lack of appropriate boundaries and problematic behaviour in schools.

And, where I grew up in the 80d, it was common to see 5 and 6 year olds in restaurants at lunch and early evening. They all knew how to behave.

70 s i meant.

"And, where I grew up in the 70s it was common to see 5 and 6 year olds in restaurants at lunch and early evening. They all knew how to behave."

Really? Where was that? [i corrected your typo, by the way]