restraining children.....

[wannabehippyandcrazycatlover]

www.facebook.com/itvnews/videos/10153677541037672/

I've just seen this footage, and the comments are pretty disturbing claiming 'well if you're going to misbehave' etc.

AIBU to think you should never body slam a 12 year old?!

herecome, masterly avoidance there of the questions about your statement that the child wasn't hurt.

catewood, I don't know how to break this to you, but bruising doesn't appear within a few seconds of an injury.

Yes , oh dopey one, but if you had clicked on the link I provided ,which was an interview with the girl a few days later you would have understood what I was talking about!

interview with 'tiny' girl

He did not use her weak point and his strong points, he is bigger and stronger so he has less need to, he just used his strength to slam her down. My 11 year old dd does Brazilian Ju-Jutsi, she is skinny and her classmates are all boys, some much older than her and on the same belt. She can get them off balance, lower them to the ground and immobilise them without the need to pick anyone up and slam them on their head. That is what I mean about using your strong points and their weak points. He was big enough and strong enough to have got her down. He body slammed her in anger.

You are comparing security where you are dealing with potentially dangerous criminals who would be attacking you, with a high school police officer! Not the same thing.

That take down in the first video can be done with only two people. That example is with mental health fully grown adults not high school students. The boy in the second video is closer in age to the girl. He cannot headbutt her, or kick as that hold prevents it and can be done standing up, but you can lower a child to the ground using that hold. He was spitting in her face, so he was hardly a calm and willing participant. The teacher was surrounded by traumatused children that were unable to attend mainstream school, so not a crowd of school children at a not normal high school. Trauatised children and special needs children can lash out or snap without warning. Her colleague stepped in because another child was approaching which pur her at risk.

If the policeman had used that hold would have kept her until back up arrived. He was in a school in the US where there were other adults. He could have got back up if needed, a school is not so out of control that a bunch of kids are going to start rushing a policeman. My experience of US teens is that the majority are lovely respectful children, even more so than British ones and I worked in a school similar to the one in the second video so not even average US teens.

According to Fox news he intercepted a verbal confrontation not a physical one. The fact that you say he knew her, if that's true it suggests he reacted emotionally which means his job as a high school police officer is questionable.

My son Attacked me a few months ago. I am 5'2" and he is 10 years old and about 6 inches shorter than me and he also trains in martial arts. He knows how to hurt someone and take someone down if he wants to. Which he did that day with me. I had a leg injury which he was using to his advantage. I am not trained in any martial arts or safe restraint techniques. I managed to bring my son safely to the floor without injuring him or myself despite him putting up much more of a fight than that girl in the video. He was kicking at my knee and punching me in the head. I managed to bring him down and restrain him until he was calmed down. That girl did not need to be body slammed.

Her mother s tiny, she is an average 12 year old. 12! A 12 year old that was body slammed to the ground by a man. I think some of you are desensitised.

augusta - "has concussion and a bruised and swollen eye is unhurt"

I hadn't seen anywhere that she did but I'd say a bruise is a risk you take when you resist a police officer. If she did, then she had minor injuries and I can't sympathise with her.

Mrsdevere - "mind you, she is brown". Lets not turn this into something it isn't, eh?

Dizzy - why did you link to a video suggesting that the officer should have used that method when he didn't have support to do so (and it says 3-5 are necessary).

"if that's true it suggests he reacted emotionally which means his job as a high school police officer is questionable."

Or, his prior knowledge suggested that this girl was capable of violence and needed to be restrained asap.

"You are comparing security where you are dealing with potentially dangerous criminals who would be attacking you, with a high school police officer! Not the same thing."

No, it was the basic doorman badge and necessary for a personal licence for licencee premises (nightclub). We were taught little but we were taught not to stand behind someone's head like that (second video) as you're inviting a smack with the back of their head. Always to the side.

I happily believe your 11 year old can get much larger people to the ground (and good for her), but not the lowering aspect of it. To get them down takes knowledge and practice. To lower them takes strength as you're fighting gravity not using it to your advantage.

RudeElf - perhaps a child who attacks his mother and takes advantage of their injuries shouldn't be trained in marital arts. Just a little suggestion!
___
Resisting arrest carries a risk and a bruise is a minor consequence. That isn't supposed to read in a 'she had it coming' way, but in a 'if she wasn't known for violence and needed the police to be involved and the resisted him' then none of this would have happened.

I think she's after a payout.

""I was going up to her to tell her let's go somewhere else so we could talk, but that's when the cop thought I was going at her," Janissa said. "

Yep. Definitely sounds likely!

RudeElf - perhaps a child who attacks his mother and takes advantage of their injuries shouldn't be trained in marital arts. Just a little suggestion!

Thanks for the suggestion, although i suspect it comes from a place of 'snippy because you dont like my point' rather than actual knowledge or concern. He has been dealt with by me and by both his sensei. This incident was dealt with very seriously and his club come down heavy with the discipline. He was left in no doubt by all around him that this isolated incident would never happen again.

Any comments on the actual point of my post? You seem to have forgotten to respond to it.

I have a sneaking suspicion that those that are saying the body slam was fine or necessary or deserved are people who think they will never be subjected to one or if in a tussle can "handle themselves", or maybe theyre justifying their own actions or hope intent to use it one day.

Dizzy - why did you link to a video suggesting that the officer should have used that method when he didn't have support to do so (and it says 3-5 are necessary).

Not the method with the large adult man, the one with the 11 year old boy!
In that hold you keep your head to the side, it is easy to dodge headbangs, I have done it.

A nightclub with potentially drunk or high adults is not the same as a police officer in a high school. Seriously!! One is there to protect the property the other is there to protect the children, they are there to serve and protect ALL the children, not just the good ones. He failed.

My daughter is not fighting gravity, she's using her entire body weight which is stronger than one persons leg. Once you knock someone off balance you are not fighting gravity but using it to your advantage. Here's a woman using Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to take down an angry man
www.dailymail.co.uk/video/femail/video-1209306/Woman-Brazil-diffuses-brawl-Jiu-Jitsu-hold-man.html

catewood, the article you link to doesn't help your argument - it isn't an interview with the girl but an account of what various people have said, and it's not clear when the photo was taken. It does confirm medical evidence that she had a large bump to the head, and that the girl says she doesn't remember the incident - which, together with the fact that simply lay on the ground for some time after the body slam does tend to confirm that she was concussed. On any interpretation, she didn't come out of this unhurt as has been suggested.

Yes, if you resist a police officer you risk some injury. But what you risk is the level of injury to be expected when he is carrying out his duty, not when he is going way beyond it.

I have defended the cop/his actions, but that is because I don't automatically believe he intended to body slam her. I believe he was intending to 'ground' her - which would be a reasonable way to restrain her, but underestimated the force be used.

I don't like to automatically think the worst of people, whoever they are. I hope that the Police and School District investigations support my view, but if they don't then I would expect the cop to be relieved of his duties at the very least.

Ive watched the video 4 times now. That was an intentional body slam. No doubt about it.

I don't agree.

I dont know how you can disagree. I assume you have seen the clip. It is very obvious.

I don't agree with what he did, I have stated that I don't believe that she is "small" or "tiny" and that he is "huge".

There are a lot of assumptions on this thread from what he should have done, how he has been trained to what actually went on before the video. (sorry but I am not convinced by a 'pity' interview with the local press).

There are techniques and strategies to safely restrain. Carers and staff working with adults ( with disabilities) who may be violent can manage it, why can't the police? I've seen small women safely contain and restrain large men who are completely melting down.

Some of the comments under the video are sickening, as is defending the police. There is no excuse when there are other options that are proven to work.

I have watched the clip a number of times RudeElf, I've also been trained in riot techniques, arrest and restraint and peacekeeping duties. I've taken part in American training, and also with Brits training Americans.

I wouldn't have dealt with the situation like that, but I have been trained differently to that cop. When training with the Americans they were far more in your face and gung ho. It's not a good thing, but it is a product of the society they work in.

I believe that I can see what the cop was trying to do, but I also believe that he was in a heightened state of agitation, compounded by the crowd who are catcalling and laughing (listen to what they are shouting before he grounds her). He overreacted and overestimated the force he used.

I accept I could be talking bollocks. He could be a nasty, racist bully abusing his badge by terrorising children. But I don't know that. From this snapshot - a short video filmed from one perspective only, without context or completion - there is not enough evidence to convince me either way. So I choose to believe that a 'school cop' of 12 months standing with no other complaints against him in this or previous posts is unlikely to be purposely choosing to damage a child.

but I also believe that he was in a heightened state of agitation, compounded by the crowd who are catcalling and laughing (listen to what they are shouting before he grounds her). He overreacted and overestimated the force he used.

Yes i totally agree with this, i think he overreacted (due to the things you mention) and part of that over reaction was deciding to body slam her. He may not have actually made a conscious decision that thats what he was going to do but i think its very clear in the clip that his snap decision (under stressful conditions) was to use that manouevre.

The adult male police officer used a method of "control" that involved deliberately inflicting a significant degree of deceleration impact upon the child's brain. She definitely had a decreased conscious level (conscious vs unconsciou is not a binary state). And then was very clearly dragged to her feet before she was fit to be standing.

And no, I'm not trained in riot control (though I have relatives who are), but I am trained in treating head injuries in kids.

I don't think it's relevant whether he purposefully hurt her, or acted in the heat of the moment. He was not in a riot situation, he was in a school and he did not act in calm manner with the appropriate response. I bet he will not be sent back to work with children. He may not be able to continue working as a police officer. If he is not that will speak volumes about whether his actions were right or not.

In similar incidents involving school cops and teens the cops usually lose their jobs.
Mario Badia was a school cop who body slammed a 13 year old and was charged with child abuse, so clearly the law sees things very differently to some people on this thread.

Sorry, that level of force would only be justified if the child had a weapon and was intent on using it. My sister works with violent children and when they are violent she knows a some pressure points and restraint techniques. She has shown them to me and she can drop me to the floor and I’m a full grown adult male.

This cop is a symptom of an American hero culture that isn’t common over here. Their police officers when faced with any threat draw a weapon. Over here, there is more subtle approach.

I hardly suspect a school police officer emerges top of his class at police academy. American police officers are not the only ones who are subject to the hero culture, their military and even their fire service succumb to it as well. America loses more fireman than any other western country because when the situation seems serious they will dive right in regardless of the consequences. In other cultures there is more of a stop, assess then react situation.

During the first gulf war the 1 British Armoured division was changed from working closely with the US marines to other units because Marines famously had a big body count, it was thought that if the casualty rate of the US marines was the same for the desert rats then there would have been in excess of 300 deaths. In the end there were very few for the marines or the Desert Rats.

Bet this guy doesn’t feel like a hero though. I suspect that he was frustrated because he couldn’t handle a very minimal threat from a 12 year old girl and decided to smash her to the ground instead.

I'd be interested to know what everyone who says the officer has "failed" if he has to do this would do if they were being assaulted, and the person was resisting restraint. We only see a a couple of seconds of footage before he throws her to the floor, that's not enough time to get a full picture.

The message of this should be if you are being held by a police officer and you don't want to end up on the ground, don't resist?