Page 3 | restraining children.....

wannabehippyandcrazycatlover · 2016-04-08T07:46:14+00:00

https://www.facebook.com/itvnews/videos/10153677541037672/ I've just seen this footage, and the comments are pretty disturbing claiming 'well if you're going to misbehave' etc. AIBU to think you should never body slam a 12 year old?!

AugustaFinkNottle · 08/04/2016 11:29

School staff, particularly those in special schools for children with behavioural difficulties, are trained in safe restraint techniques. If it's possible for them to exercise such techniques then for sure it's possible for police officers. I appreciate that that video only shows a short sequence, but at the point when the officer body slams the child he has his arms right round her body and arms and is dragging her, and he's clearly a hell of a lot stronger than she is. If he was unable from that position to force her to the ground in a slow and controlled manner, he really shouldn't be in the police force, and he certainly shouldn't be dealing with children.

OrraBoralis · 08/04/2016 11:33

I thought that was way too much force but the police in America do just that.

Recently several high ranking police came from America to get instruction from Scottish police. The Americans said they always go in high energy, shouting, high stress and when dealing with high stress situations there is nowhere left to go. They said the calmer, talking down situation that Scottish police have is better because then the police can escalate the threat. I thought this was very sensible.

Now honestly every MN person here, if that huge brute had body slammed your 12 year old daughter like that, would you be happy about it? I would absolutely not and I am horrified that so many say she had it coming.

exLtEveDallas · 08/04/2016 12:01

Instinctively, no, of course I wouldn't.

However, I'd then step back and look at it more dispassionately:

I'd think:

My daughter went there with the express reason of getting into another fight, she's been punished for fighting before and if she carries on she's going to be expelled, I'll be fined and I'll have all the stress and worry of trying to get her into another school with that on her record.
She was kicking and screaming whilst the police officer was trying to carry her away from the fight - why? Even her friends were telling her to chill. Is she trying to be the 'hard bitch'? trying to save face? Wanting to fight that bad? If she was that riled up what would she have done to the other girl - would she have really hurt her? Would she have hospitalised her? Would end up in court for assault?
What have I done wrong? Why is my daughter trying to kick a policeman? Why didn't she 'chill' as soon as he held her?
Did he mean to do that to her? Did he purposely body slam her? Can I talk to him? Can I find out what was going through his head?
Are all policemen inherently bad? Do I automatically think the worst of them? Does my daughter?
If this had happened on the street what would have happened? Would the policeman have tasered her? Shot her? Oh my God, could I have lost my daughter?
Has my daughter apologised to the police officer? To the school? To the other girl?

Then I'd tell my daughter to "Suck it up sweetheart, you lost this one, you are no gansta, get over yourself, get back to school and get on with being 12"

honkinghaddock · 08/04/2016 12:06

Staff in some schools deal with violent 12 year olds every day. They manage to contain them without slamming them to the ground.

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/04/2016 12:10

honkinghaddock

but you are talking about specific schools in the uk (?) where the staff have specific training aimed at restraint.

In a mainstream school maybe (and I do mean maybe) one or two members of staff may have had that training.

MrsDeVere · 08/04/2016 12:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MsMommie · 08/04/2016 12:14

The clip itself is too short for me to have an opinion on.
But generally, no, it's not ok. If it were my child there better be a damn good reason behind it or I would turn into psycho mom.

I do think some 13 year olds (including me at that age) are very aggressive with the power of an adult and pussy footing around them makes them worse.
Hands up, if I had a weapon, I would have used it. I was out of control.

honkinghaddock · 08/04/2016 12:18

BoneyBackJefferson - I did say some schools.

curren · 08/04/2016 12:19

Oh and I have had to restrain a 14 year old with ADHD in a rage. He was already taller and heavier than me, but I managed it and got him calmed down. If I can do it, a trained police officer shouldn't have any problem.

That's absolute rubbish. Firstly just because one child with adhd can be calmed down by you doesn't mean all can. Or that all react like this.

I do a full contact sport. The most aggressive groups are kids aged 11-15. They don't seem to realise their strength and still feel like kids. Forgetting their bodies aren't. most have been training for years. Bust lips don't happen with the young kids or adults. But happen with This age group all the time.

They just don't get it. Like this girl may not have got how strong she was or what others were thinking.

I wouldn't be happy if this was my daughter. But I would want more information than that clip of tape before I made a decision.

CodyKing · 08/04/2016 12:47

Oh and I have had to restrain a 14 year old with ADHD in a rage. He was already taller and heavier than me, but I managed it and got him calmed down. If I can do it, a trained police officer shouldn't have any problem.

Maybe - but he was out numbered and wouldn't know how the other teens may have reacted -

You know your school - and the other children who may be watching - he doesn't

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/04/2016 13:01

MrsDeVere

As I said I don't disagree with much that you post, but she isn't that small and we have no idea how strong she is compared to him, especially as she was in a 'rage'. I have seen 4 ft nothing 'weaklings' break the arms of 6ft 'strongmen'.

honkinghaddock

Yes you did say "some schools", I am just pointing out that they are likely to be schools for children with specific requirements.

honkinghaddock · 08/04/2016 13:08

If staff in some schools can manage to restrain safely then it is likely a school police officer can restrain without having to do this.

catewood21 · 08/04/2016 13:15

The man isn't much, if any, bigger than her! If she is 12 she is huge for her age! It looks as though she is biting his hand in which case I can see he needs to get her off him ASAP. I don't know how we can tell she hasn't got a knife or even a gun in her bag she has threatened to use.We just have not got enough background info to say whether it is an abuse of force or not.

OrraBoralis · 08/04/2016 13:33

If a grown man cannot get a 12 year old to comply without body slamming her then he is not very good. I know some Bouncers and they are taught easy ways to disable a girl, and some harder ways to disable a guy. Never would any Bouncer body slam a woman, I cant believe that so many people think it is acceptable.

AugustaFinkNottle · 08/04/2016 13:43

Oh and I have had to restrain a 14 year old with ADHD in a rage. He was already taller and heavier than me, but I managed it and got him calmed down. If I can do it, a trained police officer shouldn't have any problem.

That's absolute rubbish. Firstly just because one child with adhd can be calmed down by you doesn't mean all can. Or that all react like this.

Note that Deathclaws said she restrained the boy before she calmed him down. As she rightly points out, if she could restrain a boy who was taller and heavier than her who was in a rage, then it should not be beyond the wit and indeed strength of a trained, fit police officer to restrain a 12 year old girl safely.

I'm bemused at people who suggest the officer isn't much bigger than the girl. He blatantly is, and he has to be around twice her weight. Plus, as a trained officer, he's clearly strong.

One of the things that concerns me about that clip is that he immediately picks her up and makes her walk. She's just been thrown down onto the pavement and was concussed. That seems incredibly dangerous.

MrsDeVere · 08/04/2016 14:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarkyTheDirewolf · 08/04/2016 15:25

Looks to me like the video has been edited. I'd be interested to see the previous 5-10 minutes of the video. It seems to me like she'd been kicking off a while and was being videoed by friends, it's all fun and games until.

I know a lot of bouncers, they are trained specifically to disarm etc, but I've seen women being body slammed. It winds you, which makes your stop. It's fairly common.

StarkyTheDirewolf · 08/04/2016 15:29

Disclaimer to my above post. These are grown men/women in nightclubs after alcohol/drugs etc.

queenMab99 · 08/04/2016 15:32

At least he didn't shoot her.

Original poster

wannabehippyandcrazycatlover · 08/04/2016 15:35

I'm shocked at how many people think this is reasonable?...

He is an adult and a trained police officer- she is a child, many children fly into rages and yes they can be physically strong, I'm not disputing the fact that they may have had to restrain her but that was clearly excessive. She was (or very nearly) knocked unconscious.

Just because the police officers are renowned for acting like brutes all American citizens should cower down and accept that 'that's the way it is'? That's such a bad attitude to have and the police will continue to act like they do if everyone just accepts that this behaviour is normal. In addition, she's a child, she wouldn't have he reasoning to think 'oh the police are a law unto themselves I better behave' they fly into frustrated rages.

OP posts:

Original poster

wannabehippyandcrazycatlover · 08/04/2016 15:36

Queen there is that I guess

OP posts:

CodyKing · 08/04/2016 16:15

But it's a different culture a different system different values -

She may have been armed - guns are everywhere - her friends may have been armed - it's different to the uk - guns would be an exception

HPsauciness · 08/04/2016 16:20

If her friends had a gun or he thought this was the case, how on earth would body slamming the main child (and thus creating an escalation of threat all the friends saw) deal with that?!

kali110 · 09/04/2016 03:58

So it seems this girl has been in numerous fights, is aggressive, was resisting arrest but is stil just a little girl? Not a little girl to me.
That cop has no idea if she has a weapon, she's being aggressive and kicking off to him, and he's surrounded. For all he knows if he lets her carry on resisting while he's trying to talk her down then any one of her mates could decide to join in, so taking her down quickly was the safest option for him.
I think if you resist arrest then you take a chance if being hurt.
For all we know people have tried the talking down approach before ( in ine of her previous fights) and it hasn't worked.
Even her own friends are telling her to calm down in the video so i don't have sympathy. I would be very ashamed if that was my child.

dizzytomato · 09/04/2016 04:31

I've worked in a juvinile detention centre and second chance schools in the us and worked with street children in Brazil. I am trained in restraining techniques, I have restrained a number of "children" and I don't care what facts we don't have. You don't body slam anyone, least of all a child.